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Politics : Dutch Central Bank Sale Announcement Imminent? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Jamey who wrote (21260)	6/20/2004 5:23:06 PM
From: sea_urchin	Respond to of 81508

James > This statement is definitely outside the bounds of any culture. I am not aware of any tribe or people in any time that has not developed a culture of what is considered good and evil. That is the myth offered, as you suggest, by the leaders of the various "cultures". The idea of good and bad is simply the human being's idea of a desirable behaviour or condition and it is as impossible to separate "good" from "bad" as it is to separate summer from winter or night from day. Each is, in fact, the obverse side of the same situation -- a matter of perspective. > We live in a infinitely defined world where antithetical use of all language is assumed. good-bad. Black-white. Good-white, Black-bad. Sure, but one cannot have the one without without the other. The separation is, in fact, artificial. > How do we, as a culture, ever break the boundaries of good-bad? I presume we have to accept ourselves for what we are, warts and all. No "plastic surgery". Nothing hidden. We have to reveal ourselves to ourselves -- and not be ashamed of anything -- in fact, be proud. No guilt. No embarrassment. > a culture or world that does not use this system of good-bad as a method of controlling the masses. That's what it's all about. > Do you have any further comment on what circumstances could or have occurred that would cause anyone to have a culture of non antithetical thinking? Yes, Zen is like that. I don't practice Zen per se but I have been a student of Zen thinking and Zen ideas. The central idea of Zen is acceptance of life and the world as it is. No fantasies. No "improvements". Very hard to do -- especially on "bad" days! Here's an illustrative story: rider.edu >>There is a Taoist story of an old farmer who had worked his crops for many years. One day his horse ran away. Upon hearing the news, his neighbors came to visit. "Such bad luck," they said sympathetically. "May be," the farmer replied. The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses. "How wonderful," the neighbors exclaimed. "May be," replied the old man. The following day, his son tried to ride one of the untamed horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. The neighbors again came to offer their sympathy on his misfortune. "May be," answered the farmer. The day after, military officials came to the village to draft young men into the army. Seeing that the son's leg was broken, they passed him by. The neighbors congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out. "May be," said the farmer.<< And here are some of the comments of people who heard the story: >>"It's comforting to know that good can come from bad circumstances, but not so nice to face the fact that bad can come from good times. Yet, is there good and bad at all?" "I guess there is no 'good' or 'bad.' Everything that happens to us is a mixture of good and bad. You have to just take things as they are." "Everything happens for a reason, and worrying about what has or will happen has no effect. So don't worry, be happy!" "Never judge a situation - wait for the outcome." "You can't fight fate!" "God controls our lives. We may not understand his purpose, so just accept what happens."<< I think you might agree with the last opinion expressed. > please understand that I know of no other way to ask this except in a plodding, simple way And my reply is given in exactly the same way. <smile> There are many Zen stories in books and on the internet. This is one of thousands, but it is a well known one to me, anyway, and I have often repeated it to my children. The central message, in my opinion, is that, because of our limited perception of life, we have no idea what "good" and "bad" mean even though we think we do. It's like a game of snakes and ladders where, when one thinks one is going up a ladder, one actually goes down a snake, and vice versa. I'm not saying bad is good and good is bad, just that we really don't know, on a daily basis anyway, what these values mean.