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To: Brumar89 who wrote (11787)	6/23/2004 10:55:11 PM
From: 49thMIMOMander	Respond to of 20773

<<.ribbentrop agreement>> <Both sides had that understanding? > Mutual agreement, yes... <<.need for landreforms in former colonies is anything but bogus>> <Talking about former colonies in Europe is bogus> Yes, nobody but a true bogus would comment on that,not even Finland was a true colony of Sweden, but many Irish, Welsh and Scots might disagree on their siutation, maybe even that Smith guy. < Trying to justify the spread of communism by talking about "need for landreforms" is also bogus. > Seems to be proportional on level of bogus, maybe according to the rule of winner-takes-all-bogus voting districs?? <<The English empire survived WWI> Crumbled badly, and started to disappear to be replaced with an ameircan pseudo-colonial empire.> < I repeat - it is a simple fact that the British sphere of influence in the world expanded after WWI at the expense of the Turkish empire. What you're describing happened after WWII.> Yes,regular bogus knowledge of history, even the british like to to think so, although they are pissed at USA. <<Many brits are still angry at US because of that.>> < News to me.> Yes, I noteiced that < Perhaps some brits are sore over the loss of the empire. I doubt it. My neighbor is from England, maybe I should ask him some time. > Yes, please ask some of those around London City. Ilmarinen

To: Brumar89 who wrote (11787)	6/24/2004 3:41:04 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER	Respond to of 20773

Re: ..ribbentrop agreement was just a way to mutually delay.. The Anglo-German Naval Agreement In 1935, Hitler and the British Government signed the fateful Anglo-German Naval Agreement, which allowed Germany, if her Government deemed it necessary, to build up to parity with the Royal Navy. It also allowed her submarines, and the secret U-boat flotilla was immediately unveiled. The new opportunities for expansion caused some dissension in the German Naval Command. The newly designated head of the U-boat service, Karl Donitz, favoured a massive expansion of the Submarine force, with emphasis on the 500-ton Type VII, to give a greater number of vessels within the treaty limitations, rather than the larger 800-ton Type IX favoured by the High Command under Grand Admiral Erich Raeder. Raeder himself, whilst not neglecting the possible role of the U-boat, was a "big ship" man. In this field, first fruits of the 1935 treaty were the the fast battleships Scharnhorst and Gniesenau. Classed by the British as battlecruisers, these 32,000 ton vessels, mounting nine 11 guns, and with a top speed of 31 knots, were a force to be reckoned with. Also laid down were several heavy cruisers and the great 35,000 ton eight 15 gunned battleships Bismarck and Tirpitz. These were only intended as the first steps in the creation of a formidable new Kriegsmarine. In 1938 Hitler and Raeder drew up the massive expansion program known as the Z Plan. This envisaged no war with Britain before 1945. By that date Raeder hoped to have a fleet including six 50,000 ton battleships, twelve 20,000 ton battle-cruisers, four carriers, a large number of light cruisers and destroyers and 250 U-boats. Donitz with typical realism felt this program to be completely unviable, making impossible demands on German manufacturing capacity, and with the problem result of a new naval arms race with Britain and France. The premature outbreak of war in 1939 quickly led to the abandonment of the Z-Plan. Of the capital ships, work would only continue on the two battleships of the Bismarck class. Raeder felt that his largely modern, but greatly outnumbered surface fleet could only hope to "die with honor." Much would rest on the U-boat arm, which began the war with only 57 operational vessels instead of the 300 hoped for by Donitz. Production priority was switched to them, but it remained to be seen whether enough could be built in time. militaryhistoryonline.com