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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Brumar89 who wrote (138034)	6/25/2004 10:08:07 PM
From: ManyMoose	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

There are two kinds of NATO member nations, it appears. Those who can change their colors to meet the season (like weasels) and those who can't. animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu Perhaps this analogy is preferable to belly buttons and other, eh? A weasely way On personal experience, the weasel analogy is superior. As a trapper, I caught quite a number of them. They are nasty little critters, but easily caught and skinned even easier. Any old bait will do. Belly buttons, on the other hand, I have yet to catch, kill, or convert a single one. Now faultline, don't fault me for my fun here. You can easily see what I'm talking about, and it all pertains to foreign affairs, and the facts thereof vis a vis NATO. A weasely way

To: Brumar89 who wrote (138034)	6/26/2004 12:00:42 PM
From: GST	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

<France's Vichy gov't was allied to Germany at the time, wasn't it?> Yes it was, just as Iraqi's we appointed to the Governing Council are aligned with the US. Your comparison to France again puts us in the role of the Nazis, with a Nazi army of occupation and a Nazi puppet government, only this time it is an American occupation and American puppets. The "liberators" in this story, if there are any, are the "insurgents" fighting the Americans.

To: Brumar89 who wrote (138034)	6/26/2004 2:03:49 PM
From: Noel de Leon	Respond to of 281500

"Spain we had to bribe to keep from entering the war in the west on Germany's side." ""Franco's ancestors were "Marranos", Spanish Jews who converted to Christianity during the Middle Ages under threat of death or persecution. However general history may judge him, in Jewish history, he shall certainly occupy a special place... Jews should honor and bless the memory of this great benefactor of the Jewish people...who neither sought nor reaped any benefit from what he did". --From a four page obituary in The American Sephardi Journal of the Sephardic Studies Program of Yeshiva University, volume IX, 1978. James Michener in Iberia, 1968, page 547: "...Generalísimo Franco is highly regarded by Jews; during the worst days of World War II, when pressures from Hitler were at their heaviest, Franco refused to issue anti-Jewish edicts and instead provided a sanctuary, never violated, for Jews who managed to make it to Spain. Many thousands of Jews owe their lives to Franco, and this is not forgotten." In Resolutions of the War Emergency Conference of the World Jewish Congress, Atlantic City, New Jersey, November 26-30, 1944, page 15: "The War Emergency Conference extends its gratitude to the Holy See and to the Governments of Sweden, Switzerland, and Spain... for the protection they offered under difficult conditions to the persecuted Jews of Hungary...". In the Congressional Record of January 24, 1950, Rep. Abraham Multer quotes a spokesman for the Joint Distribution Committee: "During the height of Hitler's blood baths, upwards of 60,000 Jews had been saved by the generosity of Spanish authorities." Newsweek, March 2, 1970: "...a respected U.S. rabbi has come forward with surprising evidence that tens of thousands of Jews were saved from Nazi ovens by the personal intervention of an unlikely protector. Spain's Generalissimo Franco, in so many other respects a wartime collaborator of Adolf Hitler. "I have absolute proof that Franco saved more than 60,000 Jews during World War II," says Rabbi Chaim Lipscitz of Brooklyn's Torah Vodaath and Mesitva rabbinical Seminary." stormfront.org "(though they did send the Spanish Legion to fight on the Nazis eastern front)" "During World War II nearly 45,000 Spanish volunteers served with the German Armed Forces (Wehrmacht) on the Eastern Front. These men were formed into a volunteer fighting force largely due to Germany’s alliance with Spain, as well as in recognition for Hitler’s willingness to provide General Franco with military aid during the Spanish Civil War. Many Spanish citizens saw Germany’s conflict with Russia as a war against Communism. This produced a large number of volunteers between 1941 and 1943. The first 18,000 Spanish volunteers were organized in Madrid and transported to Grafenwohr, Bavaria where they received their initial training. These men were later integrated into the German Army and designated the 250th Infantry Division. The unit was formed into two regiments which were deployed to Russia on 20 August, 1941. Volunteers wore standard German military uniforms with the exception of an arm shield bearing the words “España” centered over the red and gold colors of Spain. The Spanish “Blue Division” as it was called, was initially destined to serve with Army Group Center near Smolensk, but was instead transferred to Army Group North to support the assault on Leningrad. The Spanish Blue Division fought through the winter of 1941/42 with heavy losses. As a result of these losses and a near collapse of the entire Division, the Spanish government authorized a rotational system where both volunteers and conscripts were sent to the Eastern Front. In the Spring of 1943 General Franco began negotiations with Hitler to withdraw his fighting men from the conflict. This came as a result of increased Allied pressure on the Spanish government as well as Franco’s realization that the war in Russia would likely end with Germany’s loss. In October of 1943 the first major withdraw of Spanish volunteers began. However, nearly 3,000 men chose to remain on the Eastern Front where they were they were later assigned to the 121st Infantry Division. In an effort to remove Spain from what would certainly be a failed campaign, this group was also recalled by Franco in March 1944. Despite their government’s pressure to return, several hundred volunteers refused to abandon the conflict against the Communists. These men were later assigned to several different German Army units which included the 357th Infantry Division and the 3rd Mountain Division. A small number were also assigned to specialized units within the Armed-SS (Waffen-SS) and the elite Brandenburg Division. In September 1944, one company of Spanish “Brandenburgers” was sent to Austria where it was integrated into the Waffen-SS and designated the “Spanische-Freiwilligen-Kompanie der SS 101.” This unit was assigned to the 28th Waffen-SS Division “Wallonien.” The same unit was later transferred to the 11th Waffen-SS Division “Nordland” were it was destroyed in the final battles for Berlin." german-helmets.com