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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Emile Vidrine who wrote (37830)7/1/2004 7:45:54 PM
From: alan w  Respond to of 39621
 
Me too. I get fired up occasionally and I again apologize if I seemed too emotional.

alan w



To: Emile Vidrine who wrote (37830)7/1/2004 9:05:44 PM
From: rrufff  Respond to of 39621
 
Emile - you said I have lied about you. Where did I lie about you?

You seem to hint that you are not "THAT" Emile Vidrine. The quote that I posted has circulated for years and I have yet to see you specifically deny that you are THAT Emile Vidrine quoted in the article.

Your admission that you voted for and seem to admire David Duke of the KKK seems to create some serious issues.

Rather than name-call and attack, which clearly does not seem to be the Christian way, how about clearly answering some very simple questions.

1) Are you the Emile referred to in the articles? If you are not and if you specifically disagree with THAT Emile with respect to "there are too many blacks in city hall," I will never post that article again. Fair enough?

2) Did you feel that there were too many blacks in City Hall?

3) Do you still follow the teachings of David Duke and the KKK? If not, please tell us how your view diverge.

4) Do you agree with Mel Gibson's father's denying the Holocaust? Were approximately 6 million Jews and millions of others killed by Hitler?

5) What do you think of Hitler's religious justifications and how are his beliefs different from yours?

6) How are your current beliefs different from those of Adolph Hitler? Did Hitler go far enough? Do you regret that he was not able to kill every Jew?

7)Do you still believe that anyone who believes other than the way you do is damned?

These are very simple questions. A good Christian would be able to answer each and every one quickly and easily. Let's see how you do.

Ask yourself whether I am lying about you or whether you are lying about yourself and, by that, lying to God?



To: Emile Vidrine who wrote (37830)7/1/2004 9:14:02 PM
From: rrufff  Respond to of 39621
 
Emile, I don't like being accused of lying so please tell me where I am wrong in stating your views.

The basic premise of your religious beliefs is that if someone does not believe exactly as you do, they are damned. If someone is Muslim, Jewish, agnostic, atheist, etc., each and everyone is damned because this person has not accepted your version of ancient texts. I would assume that you would also lump in here Christians, or rather those who call themselves Christians, but just do not believe exactly as you do. Again, correct me where I am not correctly stating your views.

It would appear that, as you have never taken the time to denounce Hitler, Nazism or the KKK, that you believe much of what was taught, or at least some of the religious justifications used by them. I will be interested to see if you respond to the simple questions I have asked you.

Perhaps I am mistaken about your beliefs. Here is your chance to "convert" me.



To: Emile Vidrine who wrote (37830)7/1/2004 9:48:07 PM
From: rrufff  Respond to of 39621
 
I am always amazed how extreme believers sound so much alike. Whether they are extreme Jews, Christians or Muslims, they are often vehement in their beliefs, beliefs that their "way" and interpretation of the deity and His name are the only way to salvation. I've also found it interesting that these extremists may often dress alike, have similar dietary or other hedonistic rules or prohibitions, again, believing that it is their way or the highway to Hell. They have rules on genuflecting, praying, washing, etc., etc., etc., sometimes amazingly similar to those they profess are going to hell.

Ironically, these people never seem to realize that they sound so much like those that they condemn. The Taliban would surely condemn Emile and he would likely condemn the Taliban.

I don't profess to have any great knowledge of scriptures although I do try to read and learn, more for historical knowledge than pure dogma. Instead, I try to look at things logically.

To me, the logic is that nobody can know 100% for sure what the answer to the ancient question is. No sane person today can prove that he has actually visited with the deity. That does not mean that there is no deity.

Again, my view is that it makes sense to believe and act as if there is a deity, being kind and considerate to one's fellow man, living by the rules and teachings with respect to morality that are found in almost all religious volumes, but rejecting those that are obviously out of date as the world changes. For example, animal sacrifice or bowing so many times in a certain way cannot be a substitute for a moral existence.

However, I would never presume that my way is the only way and I certainly understand that my way may very well be the wrong way if, in fact, there can be a wrong way.

This is what makes Emile an extremist. He cannot comprehend that his way is not the only way. In essence, he sets himself up as the deity, interpreting religion as he sees fit, condemning all others to eternal damnation. In essence, he sets himself up as a false god, a false prophet and this, I believe, is condemned in all religions.

Logically, I can't imagine a deity, whether it is Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha, etc., etc., looking kindly upon someone who would impose his extreme vision of the deity on others, condemning those others for the mistake of worshipping in a "different" manner. Hitler used this type of religious argument as have other tyrants over the ages. The Crusades were fought with religous fanatacism all over and this has not changed. Religion has probably been responsible for more deaths and wars than anything else in the history of mankind.

Religion, in the hand of fanatics, whether they be Emile or the Taliban, is a dangerous weapon.

If indeed, Christianity is about loving thy neighbor, would not a true Christian accept all people as brothers and not look to demonize them, searching thousands of years of history for passages to quote, passages that are not believed by modern day people of any religion?

As I've posted before, I don't know more than a few fanatical Jews who believe in the passages of the Talmud quoted by Emile. I cannot imagine a good person judging an entire group by ancient passages, essentially an internet chat commentary thousands of years old. It would be like some future generation judging Christians by the posts of Emile on SI. The Talmud is largely commentary by a group of Rabbis sitting around giving their opinions, some fanatical, some delusional, some normal for their time. Rabbis were teachers and not necessarily people that the masses followed blindly even back in those days.

In a further attempt to blood libel an entire group of people, Emile cites passages that speak about pedopohilia. My suggestion to him that this was illogical and that it would make more sense to speak about the modern problem of religious pedophilia in his church obviously upset him.

I specifically posted that I believed that Christianity was not a religion that condoned pedophilia. Yet, there is no denying that leaders of Emile's church are pedophiles and that they have used religion to further their pedophilia instincts. Clearly, someone in 1000 years might post on the internet of the future in a way similar to the way that Emile has posted about Jews.

Again, my intention here is to show how fanatical, how illogical, and how filled with hatred are the posts of Emile. Although I cannot say for sure that this is more Christian or Jewish to think this way, I do believe that it is the moral and right way to believe that all are equal, each seeking his or her way, with nobody owning a monopoly on ways to believe. I just can't imagine a Christian way or a Christian believer condoning religious beliefs based on libelling everyone else.

If his religion is good and wonderful, then present it as such and believers will come. Presenting it as hateful, spiteful and fanatical and there will be few believers. In fact, this is the trend, with the vast majority of people being modern "thinkers" tending to be less extreme than the vocal extremists.

Unfortunately, it is the extremists, whether they be Emile, OBL, the Taliban or extreme Jewish fanatics, that get the attention on the internet and in the news.