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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: FaultLine who wrote (138622)7/2/2004 4:10:05 PM
From: spiral3  Respond to of 281500
 
It can be an overwhelming social reality – true, it exists - and that's not just an "internal condition" – no one said nothing about what is just, which is where our emotions come in, it was more just about what is. If you cannot produce it externally, the thing evil of which we speak, I am going to call it an internal condition, capiche. This is just a bunch of words to describe an abstraction whose essence we don’t have to pretend exists in the material sense because as Joe and Mary know by virtue of their common sense, well they just know that it doesn’t - it is the expression of others' malevolent intention

true, when Descartes said “I think therefore I am”, I think what he was saying is that all that there is, is conciousssnnnesss. The part that was hidden to him, because he was talking subjectively about objectification, and the world outside. Well what was that hidden part. Whatever, his context was cool and was something much to be excited about. We dug his stuff so much that we didn't always realize that the things he didn't talk about also existed, so we think it doesn't exist or something, even though we know it does, because we just know that there things he never talked about, this much must be true. We recognize this by according the essential nature we call fact or the facts, whatever. This is true because we have applied our understanding of a certain condition, in fact we're so much in agreement on this, that we've found a name to describe the condition of this condition and the condition of the fact that I'm pointing to is in fact it is something we call, mundane, which we think means we can ignore it, but you can't . The part he left out, when it comes to the real world was, “I think therefore you are”. Since this was not seen it’s use is limited to the material world, as attested to by true progress which is slow. Progress depends on something to come up, the problem is we have these things called the negative mental afflictions. Can't help it, no judgement, just is. It is Us. The real world, or since I have to in this case, the external world, is the world of action. As such it is the effect of evil, not it’s cause.

In terms of this theory, one cannot ascribe causative nature to the internal condition, because the internal condition itself has no intrinsic nature. But all this is anyway is a label to describe an abstraction, it does not have independent origination, it depends on us to bring it up, thus what is it's true nature or it's essence. It is being used to describe something, that however hard we try we just cannot put our finger on it. The power to invent, itself, to be the point of determination, that comes from us. We would not have food if someone never planted it. Is this what the blame game is all about. The internal condition is empty, by virtue of which it arises in the world by means of the causal relation called dependant origination. This means that for something to come up something else musty have come up, this is the conventional world.

The nexus between phenomenon, whereby one event depends on other events, or in vitue of which, parts depend on other parts, this is a description of origination, and exactly how this dependency is spelled out, or how it is related, is a matter of great and considerable debate. So we talk. We talk a lot about Liberty and it's great, but where does Freedom Lie. Good Luck to You.