SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Politics : I Will Continue to Continue, to Pretend.... -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: abstract who wrote (3402)7/9/2004 12:59:46 AM
From: Sully-  Respond to of 35834
 
LOL! I'm assuming that this article was posted here
because it is another off the charts left winger passing
off fantasy for fact. Either that or you don't even bother
to read what gets posted on this thread. And you should
know how completely discredited Michael Moore is based on
some of the factually accurate replies I have made to your
prior posts where More's is absurdly given any positive
press.........
<font color=blue>
"I trace more than $1.4 billion in contracts and investments from the House of Saud to companies in which the Bushes and their friends have had key roles. (Michael Moore uses this figure in Fahrenheit 9/11.)"<font color=black>

Geeze, this guy has the balls to cite statistics used by
Moore after they have been thoroughly discredited by
responsible journalists & other experts on the subject
matter. Anyone who cites Moore's stats without checking at
least one real credible source has to be willing to
intentionally distort or they are dumb as a rock with an
inflexible ideology (either way, they shouldn't be among
the ranks of paid journalists IMO).....
<font size=4>
Even His Supporters Agree: Michael Moore Lies

...To start, F-9/11 makes the extraordinary claim that the Saudis have given the Bush family over $1.4 billion since the early 1990s, effectively buying them off in a sweetheart deal with the Carlyle Group and defense contractor BDM. Moore took the information from a book written by Craig Unger that is often referenced (incompletely) by conspiracy theorists on the Left, and Moore obviously did little research beyond this point.

As Terror Watch notes, the Bushes had no connections to
Carlyle or BDM at the time the deal Moore discusses was
completed:

Moore derives the $1.4 billion figure from journalist Craig Unger's book, "House of Bush, House of Saud." Nearly 90 percent of that amount, $1.18 billion, comes from just one source: contracts in the early to mid-1990's that the Saudi Arabian government awarded to a U.S. defense contractor, BDM, for training the country's military and National Guard. What's the significance of BDM? The firm at the time was owned by the Carlyle Group, the powerhouse private-equity firm whose Asian-affiliate advisory board has included the president's father, George H.W. Bush.

Leave aside the tenuous six-degrees-of-separation nature of this "connection." The main problem with this figure, according to Carlyle spokesman Chris Ullman, is that former president Bush didn't join the Carlyle advisory board until April, 1998-five months after Carlyle had already sold BDM to another defense firm. True enough, the former president was paid for one speech to Carlyle and then made an overseas trip on the firm's behalf the previous fall, right around the time BDM was sold.

But Ullman insists any link between the former president's
relations with Carlyle and the Saudi contracts to BDM that
were awarded years earlier is entirely bogus. <font color=blue>"The figure
is inaccurate and misleading," said Ullman. "The movie
clearly implies that the Saudis gave $1.4 billion to the
Bushes and their friends. But most of it went to a Carlyle
Group company before Bush even joined the firm. Bush had
nothing to do with BDM."<font color=black>

Moore's "war room", a group of paid consultants Moore uses to answer media challenges (some would say that they exist to intimidate legitimate criticism by Moore's open threat of legal action), shoots back that Bush served on the board of another Carlyle firm during that period of time and that Bush cronies James Baker and Richard Darman were principals with BDM as well. All true, Isikoff and Hosenball admit, but fatally out of context:

Like many similar entities, Carlyle boasts a roster of bipartisan Washington power figures. Its founding and still managing partner is Howard Rubenstein, a former top domestic policy advisor to Jimmy Carter. Among the firm's senior advisors is Thomas "Mack" McLarty, Bill Clinton's former White House chief of staff, and Arthur Levitt, Clinton's former chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission. One of its other managing partners is William Cannard, Clinton's chairman of the Federal Communications Commission. Spokesman Ullman was the Clinton-era spokesman for the SEC.

As for the president's own Carlyle link, his service on the Carterair board ended when he quit to run for Texas governor-a few months before the first of the Saudi contracts to the unrelated BDM firm was awarded.

Moreover, says Ullman, <font color=blue>Bush "didn't invest in the
[Carterair] deal and he didn't profit from it."<font color=black>
(The firm was a big money loser and was even cited by the
campaign of Ann Richards, Bush's 1994 gubernatorial
opponent, as evidence of what a lousy businessman he was.)

In fact, as Newsweek points out, once Bush was in office, his only action on any Carlyle-connected issue was to cancel the Crusader rocket artillery system in order to fulfill a campaign promise to convert the Army into a lighter, more mobile and responsive fighting force. Far from being in thrall to the Saudis, the Bushes (especially 43) have little connection at all to them. In fact, in reviewing their policy towards the Saudis and the royal family, it is merely the continuance of supporting their stability in return for the freer flow of oil -- which the American government has done for decades.

Ask yourself this: if the Saudis had Bush under their thumb, why would they have allowed him to attack Iraq, or even the Taliban? American armed intervention has destabilized the region to a greater degree than they have seen since the initial establishment of Israel, and al-Qaeda have been targeting the Saudi royal family ever since the first Gulf War because of their alliance with Washington. The increased instability does nothing to help the Saudis, and it forces them to reform where they would far prefer to maintain the status quo ante.

Instead of Bush controlling the Saudis, it's fairly obvious that the Saudis depend on American security and American markets to maintain their lifestyle, and have been forced to adapt to policies they otherwise would oppose. Chief among these is the public toleration of Israel. In private, and in their mosques, they preach quite a different sermon, which is another problem altogether. If the Saudis held the upper hand, they simply could change America's foreign policy with a call to the White House, or failing that, by embargoing the US. Why don't they? Because the US could find other resources, including domestic, to replace the supply, and the Saudis would suffer far more economic damage than we would in the long run.

Also, a number of people in the region lust after their oil resources, and while their security services might be enough to keep the peace domestically, their armed forces could not possibly stand up to a sustained attack. And it's not just the natural resources at question. The Saudis guard the two holy cities of Mecca and Medina, which would certainly be considered prizes beyond measure for Sunni and Shi'ite fanatics. Saddam himself was a pan-Arabist who dreamed of ruling a united Arabia comprising all of the territories in Southwest Asia, and the Sauds know that dream was not limited to Saddam alone.

Without the Saudis pulling the strings, Moore's bloviating
conspiracy theories fall apart. Read the entire article;
Newsweek does a good job of deconstructing the most
lunatic of Moore's fantasies, including the Ted Rall-
inspired rant about the Taliban and the Afghani oil
pipeline.
<font size=3>

Message 20276910



To: abstract who wrote (3402)7/9/2004 1:19:55 AM
From: Sully-  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 35834
 
Oh, in case you are still buying into the other false
assertion in this piece of crap passed off as reality by
Craig Unger, Bush had nothing to do with authorizing the
flights for the Bin Laden family. That was authorized by
(known Bush hater & Clinton appointee) Richard Clarke.
Funny how Moore uses Clarke extensively in his
crapumentary, F/911, but Moore never bothers to ask Clarke
about that critical point.

Well, here is reality once again exposing the lunatic left
for their willingness to use the media to intentionally
tell lies & deceit & worse in their zeal to win back the
WH by any means necessary.....
<font color=blue>
Right after the horrifying events of Sept. 11, when there were still restrictions on U.S. airspace, the White House authorized the evacuation of at least 142 people, most of them Saudi. About two dozen were members of the Bin Laden family.

Let's think about what this really means. The biggest crime in American history had just taken place. A massive criminal investigation was under way. These flights should have been a focus of that investigation—not a privilege granted to friends of the Bushes.<font color=black>
<font size=4>
Clarke claims responsibilty

Ex-counterterrorism czar approved post-9-11 flights for
bin Laden family
<font size=3>
By Alexander Bolton
hillnews.com
<font size=4>
Richard Clarke, who served as President Bush’s chief of
counterterrorism, has claimed sole responsibility for
approving flights of Saudi Arabian citizens, including
members of Osama bin Laden’s family, from the United
States immediately after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

In an interview with The Hill yesterday, Clarke said, “I
take responsibility for it. I don’t think it was a
mistake, and I’d do it again.”
...............
<font size=4>
* Moore's favorite anti-administration interviewee is former National Security Council aide Richard Clarke. Yet the film never mentions that it was Clarke who gave the order to spirit the bin Laden family out of America immediately after 9/11.

Moore makes much of this mystery; why didn't he ask
Clarke about it?
<font size=3>
Message 20273372
<font size=4>

<font size=4>
Michael Isikoff, you say the film is just flat-out wrong on, for example, the question involving the bin Laden family after 9/11. Explain.

MICHAEL ISIKOFF, NEWSWEEK: The movie clearly gives the impression that a lot of Saudis were allowed to flee the country, to fly out of the country at a time when nobody else could, because of the political influence that the Saudis have with the White House and that they weren't adequately vetted by the FBI.

This is in some cases flat-out wrong. In some cases, he is raising a legitimate issue, but he's leaving out a whole lot. Mainly, that there has been an independence investigation of the Saudi flights after -- that took place after September 11. The 9/11 Commission looked at it. They determined that many of them were interviewed in detail, that they were screened by the FBI, and that none of them were wanted for or needed to be interviewed who had any information relevant to 9/11.

But most importantly, it says the White House approved
these flights and gives the impression this was because of
the Bush family nexus with the Saudis. Well, we know who
at the White House approved the flights, and it was
Richard Clarke, a holdover from the Clinton White House.....

HITCHENS: I made also some of the points that Michael has
just made about the -- Moore must have known that
Richard Clarke could say this. Maybe he did say it, and
Moore didn't think it was useful, because it wouldn't work
to say that Richard Clarke had authorized the flights.

So that's one small lie, but there's a bigger lie that
it's helping to propagate. He says that the whole of
American foreign policy is determined by the Saudi Arabian
royal family. Now, the Bush administration has been to war
with two of Saudi Arabia's friends. The Taliban, who they
helped to impose in Afghanistan, and the government of
Saddam Hussein, which they regarded as their buffer state
against the Shia.

The actual history is exactly the opposite of what Moore's
paranoid suggestions are. He openly says that he believes
that the other side of this war, the Islamic jihad,
torturers, saboteurs, beheaders and fanatics and murderers
are the equivalent to the American Minutemen. So welcome
to his contribution to the 4th of July celebration. The
man is openly on the other side in this war, and the film
shows it in every frame.....
<font size=3>
Message 20284648
<font size=4>