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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (139612)	7/9/2004 6:01:28 PM
From: Sun Tzu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

> If Israel had wanted a racially pure state, they could have evicted ALL the Arabs... Why evict them when you can scare the hell out of them to leave? > ...and they are equal citizens under the law You must be kidding. Didn't we debate the legal issues of Jews, non-Arab, Arabs, and separation of church and state in Israel last year? I don't seem to recall anything like the US democracy and freedom for non-Jews under Israeli law (bringing family in, serving in the government, or parliament, etc). > over 1% of the entire Jewish population of Palestine died in the 1948 war Exactly how many people was that? > they were responding to an attack by 5 Arab armies with Nazi leadership whose open and avowed intention was genocide seems a bit one-sided, don't you think? I'd they were adopting the same mentality as those of the people they hated. This wouldn't be the first time that a group victimized by violence and oppression learns to become like their oppressors. The early pilgrims who took refuge in America from religious persecution were not so tolerant themselves. > most Palestinian Arabs have never put any value whatsoever on Jewish life. I have to agree with you here. As I said, Arabs are no paragon of virtue and I was understating the facts. > Which is not true in reverse. Only marginally so. You are not that different in your perspectives. > Both sides have had large donations from their peoples. But the Palestinians have always been too backward and badly led to develop their own economy or state. It's kinda like this: The Jews were mostly European and so had better educated, modern in their thinking, and more importantly had better management. The Pals on the other hand were a bunch of backwards third world people whom as you have pointed out did not even have much on the way of national identity. Furthermore, the Jews were united in wanting a home for themselves and had the sympathy of most of the world at the time. The Pals on the other hand had to rely on other Arab countries who really did not want a Palestinian state, but who either wanted to have the Palestinian land for themselves, or wanted to use their "aid" to Palestinians as means to steal the limelight in the Arab world. The end results were as obvious as a competition between Ben Johnson and I would be. Just the same, it does not mean that Israelis were justified in doing all that did and are continuing to do. You notice that I said after in the '70s Israel should have really changed its approach. So there is little sense in you debating the circumstances of why Israel did what it did during the 40s, 50s, 60s, or even till mid 70s. > Shooting someone who is shooting at you is NOT the same as shooting a baby in a crib. You choose to bring examples of extreme ends and forget that there is always a middle ground. Firstly, even though I have been in several of the most dangerous places on earth, I have never had to shoot at people (or prompt them to shoot at me). Sometimes this meant that I had to put up with some unpleasantries. But in the final analysis, those unpleasantries were less unpleasant than the messy business of killing or getting killed. Secondly, even if someone is shooting at me, it does not mean I am justified in killing him if an alternative (albeit more time consuming) is available to me. You see this all the time with the police (less often in America than elsewhere). They try to negotiate, disarm, or otherwise wound and capture the armed suspect. Finally, just because the Pals were too backwards to behave properly, it did not mean Israelis could not bring them forward if they had really wanted to do so. I've met a few Palestinians here. I can't say that I like them. But then again nor were they so bad that I had to fight them or even avoid them. You could have transformed them the same.