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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (139653)	7/9/2004 8:05:23 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Respond to of 281500

All of this debate is going on because CB didn't have a good answer when I said CIA polygraphs showed the so called intelligence coming from motivated Iraqis was a lie yet the admin chose to use that intel anyway That would be the same CIA that never trusted the Iraqi expats worth a damn yet based on their own intel, told the President that the case for Saddam's WMDs was a "slam-dunk"? Everybody believed that Saddam has WMDs, the US, Britain, France, Germany, everybody. To argue otherwise was to believe that Saddam was completely nuts. Now maybe he was - but I still believe that he decided to dump his stocks and programs in the 14 months we gave him to prepare.

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (139653)	7/10/2004 1:52:09 AM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (5) \| Respond to of 281500

If I said that "Muslims lie," that was not what I intended to say, exactly. I thought I said "Middle Easterners lie." Lying in court isn't uncommon, but this is above and beyond, it's something that astonishes the people I am talking about. It's like they aren't ashamed of lying. They lie when they don't have to lie. They lie even though it hurts their case. Maybe it is what you call "social protocol." Maybe you can explain it to me so I can explain it to others. As for it being prejudice -- Fairfax County has an extremely high percentage of recent immigrants from all over the world, not just the Middle East. Europe, Eastern Europe, Africa, Asia, South America, the Caribbean, the Pacific. I bend over backwards to try to overcome any prejudice, but maybe that's impossible. Nevertheless, it seems perverse to accuse me of singling out Middle Easterners. This is stuff that long predates 9/11. I started practicing in Fairfax in 1988. If I was going to be prejudiced, why would I pick out Middle Easterners for irrational ire? Compared to blacks and Hispanics and Asians, there are not all that many Middle Easterners. When I helped represent the local taxicab drivers union, our secretary, who was incredibly liberal, loved people from all parts of the world, but hated Middle Easterners. We had a lot of African clients, Nigerians, Ethiopians, Eritreans, she loved them. We had Caribbean clients. She loved them. We had Indians and Sikhs. She loved them. We had Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese. She loved them. She would tell me, "God help me, I just can't help myself, I can't stand these lying bastards." Unlike her, I don't hate Middle Easterners. I just don't believe anything they tell me that I can't verify with my own eyes. Actually, Middle Eastern women are generally trustworthy, I've found, they don't lie much more than anybody else.