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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ilaine who wrote (139716)	7/10/2004 1:45:26 PM
From: GST	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<Now that the truth is coming out about Chalabi and his organization misrepresenting the truth and manipulating the testimony of various Iraqi defectors, I think the cultural differences in the way facts are presented is relevant to the debate.> You don't have to resort to "culture" as the most likely explanation for the BS that Chalabi fed the White House -- you just need to go to motive. Chalabi had the motive to say anything that would get the United States to invade Iraq. He found common cause with people in the Administration who had a similar motivation. Working together they could both get what they want -- never mind that they had either fed-in or eagerly hyped up what the Senate report referred to as the "thinnest" of "facts" and of course outright lies and deceptions. In other words -- given their motives, BOTH Chalabi and his American clients in the White House had plenty of reason and opportunity to "lie" their asses off -- and that is exactly what it appears they did.

To: Ilaine who wrote (139716)	7/10/2004 5:30:11 PM
From: Noel de Leon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

"How can it be racist?" Because the accusation is directed at a group(Middle Easterners) as a whole. Which fulfills the definition. Racism is used in it's wider sense in this case. Try to replace Middle Easterners with Americans and liars with war mongers and you will see the problem. I worked in the ME for 18 months for USIS. Never had the problem you describe.

To: Ilaine who wrote (139716)	7/10/2004 8:32:40 PM
From: Sun Tzu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

> Sun Tzu said what I call lying isn't really lying, it's "social protocol" No I did not. I said you are a racist who hides behind his/her personal experiences and opinions of other racists in his/her social circle. I told Nadine that I did not see any major difference in lying between the Middle Easterners and others while I lived there and that there are some social protocols that would not apply here but are not lying. You choose to evade the straight questions and respond to statements never made and have the gall to claim moral superiority? FYI, an example would be a conversation I had with India a few days ago. The project manager had been looking for me to discuss some technical issues and in the end said something that translated means along the lines of "this is the happiest day of my life". Well he did not really mean that; he was just being curtious and expressing his pleasure to have had the chance to discuss the issues. > they'd don't deal with competing versions of truth like lawyers and judges do. Seems to me you are doing pretty well on the lying part yourself. Every misleading but not quite comitting to anything. > hope you are not denying that the concept of taqqiya What a load of crock. What do you know of Taqqiya and the circumstances it applies to? You just know the words but not the context. BTW, Taqqiya is a Shia concept and does not apply and if you take the time you will note that the Shia are less than 20% of the Muslims. Speaking of Islam, there you go again bringing religion into this. I though we established that your prejudism was racist not religious. Do you care to elaborate what Islam has to do with it? Are you suggesting for example that black American Muslims should not be trusted in courts because they are Muslim?