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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: alan w who wrote (38015)	7/11/2004 9:46:39 PM
From: Berry Picker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

Even IF every single person ever created came to a place beyond the grave where they had to admit that Jesus was Lord. Which - obviously happens - even satan and the demons knew Jesus was Lord. You cannot apply a scripture that refers to the here and now as a function of the Holy Spirit operating within physical men and somehow magically make it apply salvation to the condemned. In fact this verse is not to include all men but to set apart those who are of God - how strange that your doctrine should lead you to interpret a verse opposite of it's meaning: 1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: If you indeed believe that the bible teaches that every man will confess Christ - then the verse means nothing: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

To: alan w who wrote (38015)	7/11/2004 10:04:44 PM
From: Berry Picker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. I think we have discussed this verse before Alan. If you could use this verse in spite of the rest of scripture in the manner you do then you would have an absolute proof. You just can't do that - scripture is a whole and is to be understood as such - scripture cannot contradict other scripture. There are 3 possible ways to look at this statement. 1. Paul is speaking to the every man about everyone that ever lives. 2. Paul is speaking to the saved at Corinth about everyone that ever lives. 3. Paul is speaking to the saved about the saved excluding the whole world. I think you believe #2 or perhaps #1 but definately deny #3 I believe Paul is speaking to the saved about the saved. You always ignore the verses that plainly teach that God hates. You have never attempted to respond to the FACT that the bible goes out of it's way to point out that Jesus did not pray for everyone: John 17:9 "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. or as in Rotherham... John 17:9 I, concerning them, make request: not, concerning the world, do I make request, but concerning them whom thou hast given me, because, thine, they are,— or in your version... John 17:9 "Concerning them I am asking. Not concerning the world am I asking, but concerning those whom Thou hast given Me, for they are Thine. Jesus specifically tell the Father that He prays only for the elect of God - those whom the Father has and will give Him the "other sheep that will be brought" 20 ¶ "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; Jesus does not pray for the "ALL" that you impose upon 1 Cor 15:22 - you say he loves them and will save them but the bible records that He prays against them to the Father. He specifically tell the Father that He WILL NOT PRAY FOR THEM Jesus told us to pray even for our enemies... I am curious - do you not believe that is God did pray for all men to be saved and filled with the Holy Ghost that it would not happen - cause I know it would. Jesus spoke to them in parables and would not pray for them... I just cannot see your understanding of 1 Cor 15:22 at all. All those to whom Paul was speaking inherited death in the first Adam All of those to whom Paul was speaking - the born again and saved - inherit eternal life in Christ but not all men get saved - that is foolish - it make a 2 tier system of salvation - we the blessed who believe by faith are one kind of convert while the wicked and godless bastards of this present world become another class of convert. Hitler and Judas eventually see heaven. Sorry Alan - I really think you are confused. Why did Jesus not pray for everyone when all it takes is a few words? Brian