Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Just the Facts, Ma'am: A Compendium of Liberal Fiction -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Orcastraiter who wrote (11297)	7/13/2004 1:31:57 PM
From: Selectric II	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 90947

If you think we have a free market healthcare system now, I've got a bridge to sell you. The myriad regulations controlling services and prices on one end, and the John Edwards litigation contingency pushing on the other has put the squeeze on. The left wants it to die, to justify socialization.

To: Orcastraiter who wrote (11297)	7/13/2004 2:56:39 PM
From: Oeconomicus	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 90947

1. Presumably you have documentation to back up your claim that we are paying Halliburton three times what it used to cost to feed our troops when it wasn't contracted out (whenever that was). 2. Bringing Enron or utilities in general into this is a lame effort at a straw man argument. First of all, electric utilities were not "privatized" - they were deregulated. The mix or private, for-profit utilities and municipal, non-profit ones has not changed materially. Second, the "price bubbles" and shortages of electricity that you refer to, and the high costs to CA ratepayers, were creations of a) NIMBY attitudes and environmentalist obstruction in CA limiting new capacity, b) a poorly thought out deregulation scheme implemented in CA and, c) the moronic handling of the situation by Gray Davis and his incompetent administration. Third, whether Enron was a corrupt or criminal enterprise has nothing to do with deregulation. The crimes Enron executives are going to jail for are various counts of financial fraud - primarily defrauding shareholders and creditors by manipulating financial statements and stealing money through self-dealing in off balance sheet transactions and special purpose entities. Fourth, electric utilities, at least as far as residential service goes, are still generally technological monopolies and were regulated historically for that reason. The health care industry isn't even remotely a similar situation. 3. The US healthcare system does a very good job of delivering health care and, as you know but surely won't admit, those who can't afford private health insurance are not denied health care in this country. The real issues are 1) the economic disconnect between consumers and providers of health care that leaves only insurance carriers and employers who pay insurance premiums with any economic stake in health care decision-making, and 2) the financial burdens on the system from a) government and insurance industry red tape and b) the out of control plaintiff's bar. I don't know quite how to solve those problems (except, perhaps, for the last one), but then I don't claim to. I do know, however, that socialized medicine is a proven failure, as is socialism in general, and I have much more faith in the invisible hand of competition than the heavy hand of government mandate and control to find workable solutions.

To: Orcastraiter who wrote (11297)	8/5/2004 6:55:58 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 90947

And privatization and deregulation of our utilities like water and electricity has led to huge speculative price bubbles that have bankrupted many utilities as they tried to pay the back room brokered prices of "free market" electricity. Companies like Enron simply raided public and private utilities alike.. CA didn't deregulate electricity and many of the other "dergeulations" didn't deregulate anything. Instead they change all the regulations around but still have governments deciding how things should be done. You don't get the advantages of a real free market, or even the advantage of a regulatory scheme that everyone is used to and understands. In CAs case they deregulated wholesale prices and left retail price regulated. Also utilities weren't allowed to forge long-term contracts with producers to buy electricity . They had to buy on a short-term "spot market". Such a mish mash of new regulation can often be worse then either real deregulation or a traditional regulatory scheme. Tim