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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: TimF who wrote (80883)	7/15/2004 2:15:36 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

"Generally not doing something isn't criminal and isn't called negligence" We certainly don't disagree on that, and we certainly have not been discussing it. "Maybe impeding someone else from purchasing goods and services should be a criminal offense" It would depend on degree which is one of the points I have been trying to get you to understand. "It would be a refutable rather then an absolute presumption. There may be a reason why person X is so obligated" Now we are getting somewhere. Both the Legislative and Judicial branches of law have laboriously carved out the lines between legitimate discrimination and discrimination which violates essential rights and freedoms. "Before the 13th amendment black people (and everyone else) had a natural right not to be enslaved but they did not have a constitutional right not to be enslaved" BINGO! That just about wraps it up. In other words: 1). The right of people not to be enslaved IS A RIGHT. 2). It was referred to in the ninth amendment because it was NOT enumerated in the any other part of the Constitution. (now, please don't lose the thread here because, after all, I have repeated this in countless ways over several posts...any thing that IS a right and IS NOT enumerated is being referenced by the Ninth). The ninth refers to unspecified Rights--not unspecified Wrongs. 3). The fact that the right of people not to be enslaved is not enumerated in the Constitution is not a basis for denying or disparaging that RIGHT. If it IS a Right, then it IS one of the UNSPECIFIED Rights referred to in the Constitution. The Ninth Amendment was about unspecified Rights (as it claims to be), or it was about nothing at all. In other words...1). The fact that something is not herein listed does not mean it is not a RIGHT, and 2). If it IS a RIGHT, then the fact that it is not listed adds no rationale to disparage or to deny it as such. In the example: Society started to think and to reason. Intelligent people said: "Hey...people have a right not to be enslaved." Other people (perhaps unable to handle uncertainty, or advancing awareness and knowledge) said: "Hey...it cannot be a right...it is not listed in the Constitution as a right?" The first group then replied: "Oh, but it is...the ninth amendment acknowledges that there may be rights not listed in the Constitution--yet held by the people." The second group (perhaps thinking that a right not listed is not Constitutionally equal to a right that is listed) begin to deny that the right to be free is a right for black people; then they begin to disparage the "so-called" Right. The first group then explains to them that the Constitution expressly forbids (SHALL NOT) the denial and disparagement of rights which are not listed. They say...if you wish to argue that it "IS NOT A RIGHT"...that is fine. There is no evidence in the Constitution that it is. But IF we agree that it is, then the Constitution wishes it to be upheld and affirmed--not denied and degraded. ______________________________________ Time for a quiz. _________________________ 1). Which Rights "retained by the people" are NOT listed in the Constitution? a). Rights protecting against the Federal Government? b). Rights protecting against State Governments? c). Rights of people in relation to other people? d). Rights of all people against alien creatures? e). All of the above? f). None of the above. There are no Rights listed in the ninth amendment, therefore they don't exist. 2). The word "others" in the Ninth Amendment refers to: a). Slaves recently freed? b). Landowners with more than 3 horses? c). Rights? d). Everything made of plastic? 3). The framers of the Constitution referred to unspecified Rights because: a). They wanted to make a Ninth Amendment? b). They didn't feel like listing them? c). They didn't want to close the door on the ability of each generation to exercise wisdom and prudence in the dynamics of Rights involved in evolving human society and civilization. d). There was a shortage of cotton sacks and smog was becoming an International issue? 4). "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." means: a). Just because we do not expressly specify certain Rights retained by the people DOES NOT mean that we disparage them or deny them? b). If the people try to claim Rights we don't list, it will legalize slavery in perpetuity? c). If the Rights have not been constructed they SHALL NOT be? d). There are no Rights retained by the people except as listed elsewhere in the Constitution. And if there are then we SHALL DENY them? E). Denial is a Constitutional Right which makes the Ninth the arch stone of all Circuit Courts? 5). The Ninth Amendment was written because: a). If people have Rights they were all named in the Constitution, and any other "Rights" retained by the people are Rights of Denial? b). If Congress claims that freedom from excessive discrimination in public accommodation is a "Right" then they must first let everybody vote? c). "others" refers to "other" Rights such as wrong rights, left rights, and right as rain? d). They didn't want to close the door on the ability of each generation to exercise wisdom and prudence in the dynamics of Rights involved in evolving human society and civilization.