Very True Sidney...
Let me share a little tid bit of info with you...
There are 2 basic camps concerning salvation.
Those who believe that Jesus died for everyone
and that those who chose Him and will to do right
go to heaven - salvation is basically up to the
will of men --- "free will" if you would.
The other camp believes that those whom God has chosen
from the foundation of the world - are born again from
above regardless of their "fallen wills" and are
brought to Christ by the work of the Holy Spirit alone.
The first camp are known as Arminians - perhaps you know all this.
The second camp are known as Calvinists after the reformer
named John Calvin. He was not the first however to preach
such things - in fact Paul and all men have always understood this.
Jesus said to Nicodemus:
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the
sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh,
and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him,
How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him,
Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
The idea that those "born of the spirit" being strictly
Chosen of God was so primary that Nicodemus was scolded
in such a manner by the Lord. No teacher should fail at
that point ever - many today do.
The big question that arises at that point it:
If only those chosen by God are saved -
how does a man know if he is chosen?
Most Arminians (those who trust in the will of the flesh)
will comfort men by saying that
"if you have chosen Christ then you are saved"
This comfort is no comfort however when men see verses
where men have "Confessed Jesus as Lord" and are yet
cast into hell:
Matthew 7:22 MANY will say to me in that day,
Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?
and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
These men are told to go to hell - they profess Jesus as Lord
in fact they have even cast out demons and done works all in
the name of Jesus.
How could it be that they do all of that and yet not
"accept Jesus as their personal saviour"
What becomes of such verses as this:
1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God,
God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
These men confessed that Jesus was the son of God
they quite likely preached "a gospel" to others.
They sound like many modern day Preachers to me.
So then if simply "confessing Jesus" or "accepting Jesus" etc.
May or may not assure men of salvation - then what does?
The bible says this:
1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that
believe on the name of the Son of God;
that ye may know that ye have eternal life,
and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Seems to teach that we can KNOW if we have eternal life or not !!!
So men attempt to comfort themselves in various manners
attempting to prove to themselves and perhaps others that
they are indeed saved and ordained unto eternal life.
Stanley - there is a very important thing you must remember
when you use the Biblical Term "Another Gospel"
You Paul knew that those to whom he was writing had heard
the true gospel and so he could say that.
What if someone has heard a false gospel and then uses
that verse on anyone who then tries to tell them the True Gospel?
It becomes a shield against the truth - they would say
why would God allow me to hear a false one first or better
'why would God lead me into a false Gospel if He loves me?'
A reasonable question - but when has any man received the
Truth and the Whole Truth without error and without seeking?
Even the apostles of Jesus did not understand for a long time
after being "called" by Him - I know of no great reformer
who has not changed what he believed upon more investigation
of Holy Writ and deep study - in fact that is what God has indicated:
Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him:
for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,
and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
It would appear from that verse to any reasonable soul
that "seeking" would be rewarded with "finding" to those
who are diligent. One cannot be diligent without the passing of time.
Now that I have said to say this - this is the "tidbit"
of which I spoke:
Men have attempted to prove their salvation in various ways.
1. Doing Good Works.
Verses that send them into this realm are as these:
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men,
that they may see your good works,
and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead,
so faith without works is dead also.
However - did not those whom Christ sent to hell also do many works?
2. Prove that they have the spirit within them.
They may attempt this by speaking prophecies hoping they come true
or if they are Pentecostal they may "speak in tongue"
which is not really speaking in tongues at all but a modern
day transposition of the real gift which were real languages.
Or they may come up to others with 'words of wisdom from God"
That kind of thing. Sometimes these 'words' can get others in trouble
I know a man who had a few people tell him that "God had shown them" that he was to marry a certain woman.
He did - it was wrong - that woman had not been lawfully divorced
and later divorced him as well - she is to this day quite strange
but he was a big boy - tough lesson however.
Verses that cause people to head in this direction are as such:
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost,
and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
I have actually heard people say "being filled with the
spirit with the EVIDENCE of speaking in tongues"
Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine,
wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Acts 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken
where they were assembled together;
and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost,
and they spake the word of God with boldness.
3. Theological Knowledge and Biblical Understanding
This last one would be more my venue of false assurance :-)
This was a common trait of many people of the Reformed Traditions.
They understood that the flesh profits nothing and that the
carnal mind cannot understand the things of God of the Word
so they assure themselves and others by obtaining a lot of
theological knowledge. You "prove" yourself not carnal because
you can receive the "things" (knowledge) of God.
Verse such as the following are sited:
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:
for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come,
and hath given us an understanding,
that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that
is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ.
2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the
doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
This is the true God, and eternal life.
This last verse is used to condemn anyone who believes other
than what 'they' believed and anyone who may grow beyond
where they are at etc.
There are many verse that could be sited for the various slants
but I want to keep this brief if I can.
In all cases however - it is possible to show forth these
so called proofs and yet be one of those to whom Christ said these words:
Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not
whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
Now when Jesus says - He does not know you or where you came
from - it is not because he did not know about you. Jesus knows about all men - else how could He have judged the world?
He means to say that "He does not know them" as in Adam "knew" Eve.
It is an intimate relational knowing not a scientific head knowledge.
So it is true that men who are truly born again should
have the spirit of God - do good works - and be able to,
with diligence, understand God Word far better than the world.
Yet many can and do fake these things.
Many of us constantly fail at these things.
These things are not in themselves substantial proof.
I wanted however to point out what is behind much of what
men as Christian do and sadly why they may be doing them.
There are in all 3 of those positions huge exegetical errors
in the verses that are being used to support those notions.
The error however is not merely and intellectual failing
nor is it simply a matter of more education.
I can point out the problems with all of those interpretations
and just where those who have used such have failed
but it does not change who they are or their position in Christ.
Some who are truly saved are seeking some of these false assurances
on a daily basis and wasting much effort - they are the "Marthas" of today.
Particular denominations fault more at a particular position.
I doubt anyone would argue the Reformers would lean upon #3
or that Rome looks to #1 while Pentecostals lean upon #2 predominately.
Paul - spoke to men within churches and said this:
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit,
if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
and again:
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith;
prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves,
how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
If we see much knowledge - if we can see many works - of
any man appear to be spiritual and yet Christ not be within
that man is none of His.
I have posted on this thread for a long time.
It appears to be a war zone rather than anything else.
Someone recently posted that it appears that all the "christians"
are attacking each other on this thread - a "house divided"
This observation is in my opinion utterly true - and I do not
see myself as the "innocent" party by any means.
Perhaps another favourite false assurance I should mention is:
4. Persecution and Suffering
I am sure you know many verses that can support this view.
It is true that those who speak truth are persecuted and hated.
However - how many are hated because they deserve it and yet
attribute it "suffering for Christ"
Paul pointed out that we may be "suffering" because we are
NOT serving Christ rather than for truth:
1 Peter 4:15 For let none of you suffer as a murderer,
or a thief, or an evil-doer, or as a meddler in other men’s matters:
Perhaps some times people are just sticking their noses where
they do not belong - now that could never be me :-)
I am happy to hear and believe you when you say
"I do not want to attack the truth"
I caution all men however - I, in time past, have attacked the
truth when I was utterly confident that I knew it - only to
discover later that what "I knew" was false teaching that I
have been taught and had bought.
I take a little more care now before condemning what I do not
fully understand - and cannot condemn out of hat anything
that I may not have heard before without examining it:
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica,
in that they received the word with all readiness of mind,
and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
You are also right to say "Time will tell"
I think however that much of the wars that go on between
those who call themselves Christians are based upon another
false notion...
Defending the Truth
In the name of "defending the truth" more Christians have been
tortured, burned at the stake, excommunicated (from churches and personally from friends) etc. etc. etc.
It appears everyone intuitively knows what acceptable error is
and what is damnable heresy - they seem to have a hotline
right up into the judgement seat of Christ - amazing knowledge
and this "amazing knowledge" has done more damaged than anyone can measure.
Luke 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one
casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him,
because he followeth not with us.
39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man
which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak
evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
Or as it was translated in Luke:
Luke 9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not:
for he that is not against us is for us.
So sad in a pathetic effort to assure themselves of their
own "standing" in Christ that men will perform so many evils
that when examined seem to prove themselves far from Him.
Ironic - and Sad.
I am happy to know that you do not want to attack the truth.
I wonder however how many are slow to attack those who are His.
1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his
brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother
whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
Unfortunately, this thread is often filled with hatred.
Have a good Sabbath.
Brian |
