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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Jamey who wrote (38076)	7/19/2004 12:55:15 AM
From: Berry Picker	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

James - those who are being saved - hear one another. Romans 15:7 Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God. There are yet others who are "being brought" and are in transition - they fight us against these truths but are at the mercy of God's Written Word - this is a solid proof that they are in fact being brought. There are yet others to whom the written Word of God means nothing - it seems easy enough to determine that they are not elect and not being brought etc.... However, I do know some men - when questioned about their own conversion will confess with all of the being and soul that it was God's Grace alone and nothing they did that saved them and yet fight against election until the day they die. It is funny that their personal experience and the their theology are diametrically opposite to one another. I do not know if you read the post I put up about false assurance. I do not think understanding election is fundamental to salvation. I do however believe that submitting to the Word of God is in fact a proof of salvation. I can only think of one thing however that Jesus did say: Matthew 13:24 ¶ Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? 28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? 29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. Interesting that many believe Christ has not yet returned and that when He does He will gather first the elect - this parable says differently - many such things do men have terribly wrong but that does not mean they are not saved. One of the saddest things I am witnessing is just how cruel many in the name of Christ are being to those who study God's Word the most - namely Preterists. I do not know a single Preterist who is lazy in studying God's Word and yet the ignorant among us feel obligated to persecute them - that still does not mean they are not elect - remember Paul. It does seem unreasonable that those who are saved act so violently toward anyone who begs to differ - but they do. In fact they see it as their duty to Christ- this is not new: John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. Paul repented from being a persecutor and became one of the persecuted after he was converted to the Lord - it does not look good for some of these to be 'damning' that which they do not understand. Titus 3:2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. I suppose we will always have the brute beast among us. 2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; I just wish I was not so prone to being just like them :-) Brian

To: Jamey who wrote (38076)	7/19/2004 1:57:22 PM
From: Emile Vidrine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

I think every Christian has a secret desire for this doctrine is true. It's as if we think that we are more just and more loving than our all loving and compassionate God. Our own sins tells us that we also were not worthy without the Blood of Christ. What is the secret ingreidient that prompts the Holy Spirit to open the eyes of our heart? However God does it and whatever God does, in the end, will be perfectly loving, just and satisfactory. But in the meantime, I think it is far safer to follow in the Gospel footsteps of the Apostles and Martyrs than in the footsteps of doctrinal innovators such as Mr. Knoch and his modern followers.

To: Jamey who wrote (38076)	7/19/2004 3:09:45 PM
From: alan w	Respond to of 39621

Brian, this verse teaches that God does not wish for all men to hear the truth and understand, lest they should be healed. (Or saved) Of course you're exactly right James. God does not wish for all to hear the truth and understand at this time. This again is pertaining to "aionian" life. Which the KJV has chosen to translate as "eternal" or "everlasting" life. Which is of course incorrect. Life for the aions is the thrust of this verse from Isaiah. But, Paul in 1 Timothy 2:6 says Christ gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.