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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: KyrosL who wrote (56592)	7/28/2004 1:30:33 AM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793974

Kyros, to tick off points 1 and 2 and say, therefore, AQ is our creation, is to give ourselves waaaaay too much credit. The Arabs are actors too, and are reaping the results of their choices as well. The Saudis chose to use one of histories biggest windfalls to support their corrupt family business, while propping it up with a crazy Islamic fundamentalist religion, which they propagated to the ummah. They are starting to reap the benefits of their world class hypocrisy. I also think that the war in Iraq strengthened AQ and weakened America and may prove to be a bigger strategic blunder than our support of the Mujahedin in Afghanistan Kyros, we killed a bunch of them, drove the remainder into hiding and deprived them of their base in Afghanistan. Afghanistan, which was utter ruble, is slowly improving, as attested to by the refugee traffic, which is now in, not out. I sure hope nobody ever "strengthens" us like we did the AQ. To say that the extra motivation we gave them makes worlds of difference strongly implies that you don't think they had a quarrel with us before, or believed their own ideology. It's as if they aren't really serious players. I know the mainstream media paid no attention to the rise of radical Islam over the last 20 years, but please check it out & believe that it wasn't our invention, and their quarrel with us is real, and due mostly to our geopolitical power on the globe, and our cultural exports, which policy changes could only have fiddled with at the margins. The world would still have used oil, the oil regimes would still have maintained themselves, the Saudis would still have made their Faustian bargain with AQ, whatever the US actions. If we had let Saddam have Saudi Arabia, it would hardly have improved matters. We are now left with two unfinished jobs and no resources to finish either. I am afraid that there is a non-trivial probability that Iraq will evolve into Afghanistan II in terms of Al Queda support. Yes, they are unfinished, and will still be unfinished ten years from now. This is a long term struggle. The Iraqis, if you believe their polls, want their own secular government. They don't want what AQ has to sell. Neither do the Afghans, having had more than they cared to get under the Taliban.

To: KyrosL who wrote (56592)	7/28/2004 10:49:54 AM
From: carranza2	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793974

No, Kyros, we did not create OBL or AQ, though we set the conditions for their growth and popularity. You've got to take a larger view. The entire Islamist insanity first started to grain traction in Iran, when the Mad Ayatollah took over and allowed the Republican Guards to kidnap US diplomatic staff. Our error was not to respond decisively then. We looked weak and they began to think of us as a paper tiger, especially after the botched rescue attempt. Aside: this is the reason I almost threw up when I heard Carter talk about W's "unbroken string of foreign policy failures" at the convention the other day. The gall, the gall! As much as I thought Reagan was a great President, he also is responsible for giving the Islamists reason to think we are weak because he failed to respond decisively when the Marine barracks were bombed in Beirut. Clinton exacerbated things by not acting decisively in Mogadishu and by shooting off a few inefective missiles. We are perceived as weak. The weak are not respected in the ME, they are scorned, attacked, and manipulated. We have given the Islamists very good reasons to think that we are weak. Only the two Bush presidents have had the nerve to challenge this perception. It is a perception we need to once and forever change because not doing so will result in more terror.