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Pastimes : Ask God -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (38195)	7/28/2004 11:34:35 PM
From: Jamey	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 39621

What, then. is Paul talking about? The problem is you want "world" to mean something other than what it meant in the days it was used. The principle of interpretation is "Usus Loquendi" That simply means that we must use the meaning that was intended when the words were originally used not their meaning today. Various ways to determine that are such as 1. Comparing the writers own works at other places on the same matter or subject 2. Immediate Context 3. Nature of the subject itself 4. Comparing parallel passages by the same or other writers 5. Other works within the same culture and time using the same expressions and literary styles. The use of the word "world" now is foolish - the world to them did not exist beyond the Mediterranean Sea. (Taken from a conversation between Brian and I.) Paul said he preached the Gospel to the world. It can mean nothing else no matter how much you want it to mean something else. James

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (38195)	7/30/2004 7:11:31 AM
From: 2MAR$	Respond to of 39621

That is, of course, taken out of context by you. Paul is quoting from the Old Testament there, Psalm 19. He's not saying that the gospel has been preached to the whole world at that time. It's not what Paul is talking about at all. Your "Old Testament" friend was brought to you courtesy of the Greek scholars nice enough to preserve it for you and Jesus, from out of a 1000yrs of their own culture that consisted of some of the deepest thought , reflection , meditation and development of language and ideas that even gave the word "Christ" its existence & its ornament. Even the Egyptian borrowed from the Greek, and still today that spirit of deep reverence and freedom rings in this world , that Paul is truely only in reality a footnote. Paul/Saul did not teach the Greek , he borrowed from and was created in the image of that culture he is thought to have converted . In every philosophical and theologica detail , the essence of your religion is mounted on the back end of the cultures that were as vital and productive and giving to the human spirit and imagination , as will ever be concieved . Humility...perserverance ...self-sacrifice...intelligence...reason...divine wisdom....divine revelation...contemplation....divine prophesy on and on did not begin with the troubled tribe of Jesus or with Paul. All that body of most of everything you consider scripture was colored in and outlined in the greatest detail a 1000 yrs earlier in what we know as Greece . Paul had a revelation from above ? Yah , so did Solomon have some too--->all is vanity ...and that he also probably found leaving his lips because some Greek philosopher finally got to him ! hehe Pish posh....shear illusion and the height of Christian vanities and hysteria. But they burned all the books you know and slughtered uncounted numbers of pagans , just like the Moslems did ...and then slaughtered each other. But the most divine passages of both your old and new testaments are given life , the love , the poignacy , the literacy and vibrancy from that culture that was the originator of most all those concepts you hold dearest. Paul had nop divine revelation , any more than the great teachers that preceded him from centuries before. That is your illusion , but the world rediscovered what the truth was 1500yrs later , and a rennaissance of creativity ensued...only to be put down once again by the most violent "believers" . You'll even find the idea of the "Christ" existing well and alive over to the east...quite distinctly prophesied in the Hindu Scriptures written down in the 4th century BC: The prophesy of God taking on the human form , and entering the "earthly sphere" , to take on a physical body to rectify the wrongs of men and shed new light, and revitalize the world is an old prophesy , not exclusive to the old testament or Jesus at all. It is found clearly written in the oldest scriptures of the Hindu. (the oldest in the world) When goodness grows weak, When evil increases, I make myself a body. In every age I come back To deliver the holy, To destroy the sin of the sinner To establish righteousness (Bhagavad Gita) written approx 450BCE out of India of Krishna....and possibly passed down verbally before from 3000yrs bc The word "scripture" itself comes to you courtesy also from the Hindu as well as "God/Diety"...and also the idea of Christ/Messiah/Son of God. That the Christians and Moslems could not destroy or murder thanks to modern investigation and open translations and the revelation born from study of the truth of mankind's true history...all of it , and not the Judeo/Christian myths and centuries old forced hysteria. Paul's enlightenment was not that great friend . Now try and get a clue... Now carry on with all your wonderful illusions and who is more holy than the other .... even the Ehyptians were not all that evil as your "old testament" would state, the Hebrews are a tiny voiciferous desert wnadering warlike tribe , that made lots of noises on there own behalfs...the Greeks were tollerant enough to let them squawk. (My God , how small we make God in our own images ad nauseum infinitum)

To: Sidney Reilly who wrote (38195)	7/30/2004 7:45:52 AM
From: 2MAR$	Respond to of 39621

But the Greeks did drink a little too much wine...they were also fearsomely austere , hardworking and diligent, thoughtful to test even the greatest of any hebrew in their time . The Hebrew was a pale reflection of their energy in reality. And think of the beauty that were those amphitheatres they built to put on their plays and shows, how splendid a thing ....every concievable taboo subject to your own chosen puritanical belief structure smashes and dashed in a 1000 pieces . Yes they were warlike people and yet they did get around ...even conquering almost the entire region over to India and down into Galillea and Jesus' own turf ...and Egypt as well. You think they were some small influence really? And over to Egypt as well...and the greatest library as well in Alexandria where "Greek Jews" were allowed the freedom to practice their faith and write down their "testament" to be preserved for you fools today...because the Greeks were already conscious of a Universal God behind all things . Uncanny that such a collection of mankind's literature there in Alexandria and other places , should be one of the first casualties of "Christianity". Very sad... And , oh yes....before I forget old Socrates who preached mostly at the "Agora" 500 yrs before Jesus. Funny thing about that Agora ..it was where they positioned the moneylender's tables also and a marketplace , and Socrates preached his sermons of reason beside them ...that he was a----> citizen of the world ...and not just an Athenian. Interesting parallel isn't it that , of Socrates also preaching by the money lender's tables ? And then put to death... And just vaguely familiar in its setting and spirit to the similar story of "Christ" that sometimes listening to christians and examining their behavior and obstinacy to reason, i must conclude is a fairy tale. ...and about the money lender's tables ...but this story precedes Jesus by 500yrs . amen ( I often wonder what is fact and hysterical fiction...who was borrowing from who? The Jews from the Greeks in reality ? ahem & amen...) And if Jesus did not hear of these stories, these philosophies , these theologies , already in circulation for at least one hal a millinea ...and 100's of wise sayings more besides , then was living in one of the most sheltered lives imaginable? How would that make your God and that "jehova" really seem then? But witnessing some the idiocy here , anything is possible.