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Politics : Discuss the candidates honestly. -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: American Spirit who wrote (3215)7/31/2004 3:18:18 PM
From: Bearcatbob  Respond to of 4965
 
kerry spirit - no one who calls you a liar owes you an apology!



To: American Spirit who wrote (3215)7/31/2004 4:02:45 PM
From: Bob  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 4965
 
French Spit:

You are a liar. I would never have to apologize to you for anything.

You keep repeating the same lies over and over.
A minor one, you say Gardner killed people, plural. From all the articles, it is one person, singular.

This is my last post to you on this matter. The Time Magazine piece is propaganda from a so called historian, who is a Kerry Campaign Ass Kisser.



To: American Spirit who wrote (3215)7/31/2004 4:36:33 PM
From: Bob  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 4965
 
AS:

You need to respond to this allegation now. This is from Laz, who you claim to have on ignore.

Once you click on the links, you will see you are mistaken:

***********************************************************

Message 20365299

Message 20365565

I demand an apology. Should you fail to apologize, that refusal will be brought to Admin Dave's attention.

Lazarus_Long



To: American Spirit who wrote (3215)7/31/2004 4:48:39 PM
From: Lazarus_Long  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 4965
 
Veteran support for John Kerry — I am a Navy veteran of the Vietnam War. I oppose John F. Kerry for President. In his drive to become President, John F. Kerry has surrounded himself with supporters that are Vietnam War veterans, this has been well documented by news organizations. On the other hand, there are thousands of Vietnam War veterans that vigorously and vehemently oppose John F. Kerry for President, this is not well documented by news organizations. I am one of the Vietnam War veterans opposing John F. Kerry. During my one tour of duty (Using John Kerry standards I could call it two or three tours, but I refuse to inflate it) I served as a Naval Advisor to the Republic of Vietnam Navy and at NAVSUPPACTDETQUINHON and I have been around Swift Boats, and I know Swift Boat sailors, then, and now.

The Vietnam War Myths conference (opposite) at Simmons College in Boston, organized by Steve Sherman is the answer to the lies and distortions of John Kerry and Winter Soldier. Organized by veterans, this conference is the the antidote to the poisonous America-haters and veteran-haters, many of whom will be attending the Democratic Party Convention at the same time, in another part of Boston. - Richard Rongstad, USN (Ret.), Republic of Vietnam 1969-1970, Phu Cat to Phu Quoc. (My in-country and Qui Nhon details, photos) — Military Links.

"Among veterans and active duty military, the picture is more difficult to read, though Kerry's strength in this quarter has been overstated by a media all too ready to buy the "band of brothers" theatrics that Kerry has been staging at each campaign stop. Every time Kerry invokes his real heroism in Vietnam, a network announcer should intone the opinions of Paul Galanti, quoted in the February 17, 2004, Los Angeles Times:

"Paul Galanti learned of Kerry's [1971] speech while held captive inside North Vietnam's infamous 'Hanoi Hilton' prison. The Navy pilot had been shot down in 1966 and spent nearly seven years as a prisoner of war."

"During torture sessions, he said, his captors cited the antiwar speeches as 'an example of why we should cross over to [their] side.'"

"'The Viet Cong didn't think they had to win the war on the battlefield,' Galanti said, 'because thanks to these protestors they were going to win it on the streets of San Francisco and Washington.'"

vikingphoenix.com

Former sailor is drawn into battle
Archfoe reemerges to condemn Kerry

By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff | May 5, 2004

WASHINGTON -- Thirty-three years ago, a young sailor named John O'Neill was sitting in the Oval Office, talking with President Nixon and his counsel, Charles Colson, about an effort to take on an antiwar leader named John F. Kerry. For nearly an hour, Nixon sought to buck up O'Neill, recalling how he, Nixon, had taken on the communists and suggesting it was now up to O'Neill to take on the antiwar protesters.
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O'Neill took the advice and soon engaged Kerry in a series of televised debates at which he charged that Kerry was making up allegations of Vietnam atrocities.

Yesterday, it was as if things had hardly skipped a beat. Here was O'Neill, at the National Press Club, standing before the television cameras and declaring that Kerry had made up stories about atrocities in Vietnam. Except this time, O'Neill was acting as the public relations man for a group of Kerry's former commanding officers who said the Massachusetts senator was not fit to be president.

O'Neill and Kerry, who both commanded Navy swift boat No. 94 in Vietnam but did not serve together, have not engaged each other in the intervening years. A successful lawyer in Texas who no longer cared to be in the public eye, O'Neill for years refused efforts by Kerry's political opponents in Massachusetts to speak out against Kerry. Although he gave an interview to The Boston Globe last year for a series of stories on Kerry's life, O'Neill said at the time that he hoped to fade back into anonymity.

But earlier this year, O'Neill recalled in an interview, he was sitting in a hospital recovery room when he saw Kerry's image on television. O'Neill had just donated a kidney to his wife, and Kerry had just won the Iowa caucuses.

Feeling pensive, O'Neill said, he decided that he had to speak out against Kerry.

After recovering from surgery, O'Neill had a phone conversation with the man who once commanded all of the swift boats in Vietnam, a legendary retired rear admiral named Roy Hoffmann. Hoffmann, too, was bristling with anger about Kerry -- still upset about Kerry's 1971 claims about atrocities and war crimes -- and wanted to speak publicly about it. Hoffmann contacted all of Kerry's commanding officers to see whether they wanted to speak out.

So it was that yesterday O'Neill stood beside Hoffmann and some of Kerry's other commanding officers, declaring, "We believe that based on our experience with him that he is totally unfit to be commander in chief."

It was O'Neill's second shot at his archrival. O'Neill made his points against Kerry in those 1971 debates, but he looked ill at ease in the most famous encounter, on "The Dick Cavett Show." Kerry, at 6 foot 4 inches tall, towered over O'Neill, who nonetheless taunted Kerry as "little man." Kerry had a thick file of documents, using his years of experience on the Yale debate team to say calmly in a Kennedyesque accent that he "personally didn't see atrocities" but that he took part in actions that he later learned were contrary to the Geneva Conventions.

Then O'Neill gradually faded into history, appearing at the Republican National Convention in 1972 on behalf of Nixon, clerking for Supreme Court Justice William H. Rehnquist, and returning to Texas to become a lawyer, where one of his law partners was the late Harold Lezar, who in 1994 ran for lieutenant governor on a ticket with George W. Bush.

It took the prospect of John Kerry as president, he said, to get him back in the arena.

Michael Kranish can be reached at kranish@globe.com
© Copyright 2004 Globe Newspaper Company.

boston.com

Swift Boat Vets Accuse Kerry of Vietnam Photo Fraud

Eleven out of a group of 19 Vietnam Swift Boat veterans pictured in Sen. John Kerry's presidential campaign literature demanded on Monday that he stop misrepresenting them as supporters.

"Many of us don't want to be included in that picture because we have a rather unsavory feeling about this fellow," Kerry boatmate Bob Elder told nationally syndicated radio host Linda Chavez.

Citing the top Democrat's anti-war activities after he returned from Vietnam, Elder told Chavez, "We regard the fact that he rallied the American public against his fellow comrades in arms as basically a betrayal of all of us."

Swift Boat veteran Bill Shumadine, who's also pictured in the campaign literature, told the Liberty Broadcasting host that he didn't want to be associated with Kerry in any way, calling his conduct after the war "very offensive."

"Having my picture there it appears that I somehow support his cause," Shumadine explained, adding, "It's not something that I'm proud to be associated with."

Elder, Shumadine and nine others have banded together in a group they call "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth," which includes more than 220 Vietnam veterans who served in Kerry's unit.

Of the remaining six veterans pictured in the photograph, "one is deceased and three do not wish to be involved in any manner; only two of the 19 are believed to support Kerry," the group said in a Monday press release.

"His use of a photograph with his 18 comrades with knowledge that 12 of them condemn him ... is a complete misrepresentation to the public and a total fraud," Shumadine added.

Elder told Chavez that the group of 12 included not only Kerry's boat mates but also two of his superior officers, who joined in condemning the Democratic presidential candidate.

He noted also that at a press conference Friday in Washington, the group was joined by Jim Zumwalt, son of the late Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, former chief of naval operations during the Vietnam War.

"Even Jim Zumwalt, on his father's behalf, joined us in condemning the activities of John, saying they do not make this man a fit candidate for commander in chief," Elder told Chavez.

In an open letter to Kerry included with the press release, the group said: "We did not give permission for you to use a photo including our image, nor do we support you. ... We join our fellow Swiftees who believe that someone who heaped scorn and lies on his own unit for his personal political gain is not fit to be Commander in Chief."

worldaffairsboard.com