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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: spiral3 who wrote (142507)	8/4/2004 4:45:40 PM
From: spiral3	Respond to of 281500

Unfortunately due* to circumstance they both became God.* Ahhh...at last, there is the juice that Descarte found. but what a naughty chap, that's not right is it, it's wrong isn't it, it ain't The Truth is it. Is it or isn't isn't, but rather I meant to say unfortunately this arose, as a consequence of circumstance. Nagarjuna said that the way will be found in the use of language, and you thought that this was all about meditation which to be honest I've never done a day of in my life and that is the truth, but then again what is the practice, they say it can be anything, whatever you choose. Anyway I think he was right which he why I suppose I think he provided an exquisite proof in his exposition on the middle way, also thanks to Tsong Kapa.

To: spiral3 who wrote (142507)	8/4/2004 5:20:35 PM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Things are getting more garbled, but I will attempt a response. The scientific method is not the only way to get truth, but it is the best way to get truth in a public manner, and without strong reservations, about a number of things. Philosophy yields truths through appealing to common experience and rigorous reasoning, in matters which are not amenable to experiment or closely calibrated observation. Philosophy itself establishes the scientific method, although it gets further confirmation in the sheer fact that it works. The whole point of Descartes' dictum is that one knows one's own existence in the very act of doubting, since someone is doing the doubting. He would not have pointed to the body, which was not so firmly established, and, indeed, Descartes accepted the mind/body problem, assuming they connected through the pineal gland. Descartes set up a parallel movement in modern thought. While science concerned itself with material objects and their traits, philosophy became more and more interested in consciousness, and the nature of our encounter with the world. This has not been prejudged by a particular doctrine, but explored by various philosophers like Kant, Hegal, Nietzsche, Husserl, and Heidegger. Interestingly, Heidegger, towards the end of his life, was given some essays by D.T. Suzuki on Zen, and professed to find affinities with his thought in them.

To: spiral3 who wrote (142507)	8/4/2004 6:56:21 PM
From: Sun Tzu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Descartes debate was nothing new. Ancient Greeks were also preoccupied with it. May years ago, I read about an intellectual group in Baghdad around 1100 years ago known as "The Doubters" (or the Skeptics). They were in many ways similar to Descartes. Their leader, whom we call "Abu" since I don't remember his name, was a fierce opponent (to the point of personal animosity) of Nazam (I think). Nazam was the leader one of the most influential thinkers who also believed in logic above all else, but not in the same silly sense. Anyway, one day Nazam saw Abu crying over the bridge on Tigress river. He asked about the problem and Abu told him that he had just lost his son. Nazam began to console him with the usual this was fate, he is in a better place now, and so on. To his surprise Abu said, "What I am really sorry about, is that my son died before reading my latest paper on 'doubting' and so he died ignorant". Realizing the magnitude of Abu's dogmatic thinking, Nazam answered, "Well then, since you doubt everything else, why don't you just doubt that your son is dead and go living a happy life". At this point Abu threw his papers in the river and gave up the doctrine. Descartes and all those who question there is a real world beyond their thinking should close their eyes and wonder off in Baghdad today. If they live, they have proven their point. Otherwise the problems has been taken care of <g>.