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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (142735)	8/6/2004 6:14:37 PM
From: GST	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

The "Right" has never been concerned with protecting the freedom that comes from the rule of law. You should not be surprised by methods associated with fascist regimes of the past. Abuse of power and systematic efforts to remove any constraint on their power is the hallmark of the current administration. 9/11 was the perfect excuse to adopt the methods of fascism. Fascism only thrives when an "enemy" can be relied upon to provide a pretext.

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (142735)	8/6/2004 6:32:28 PM
From: Neocon	Respond to of 281500

This is as bad as it gets: Sections 411 and 412, aka "Alien and Sedition Acts" It's important to note from the outset that virtually all of the administration's unprecedented abuse of aliens—the indefinite detentions, the blanket secrecy, the lack of charges, and the removal of aliens to secret military brigs—have happened absent any legislative authority. While some provisions of Patriot make it easier for the government to treat aliens poorly, Patriot in no way authorized the worst reported abuses. What they do: Section 411 makes even unknowing association with terrorists a deportable offense. Section 412 allows the attorney general to order a brief detention of aliens without any prior showing or court ruling that the person is dangerous. The law before and how it changed: 411 makes aliens deportable for associating, even unknowingly, with a "terrorist organization." 412 gives the attorney general new power to order detentions based on a certification that he has "reasonable grounds to believe" that a noncitizen endangers national security. No judicial review is provided except for habeas corpus—a most basic and unlikely avenue of appeal. And the attorney general may continue to hold the alien indefinitely. If an alien does not have a country willing to accept him, he may now be detained indefinitely without trial. Moreover, the act allows for aliens to be held for seven days without being charged with a crime. The act requires a biannual report to Congress but the report need not contain information including the names of those held, when they were seized, where they were detained, or the nature of the charges against them. How it's been implemented: Sparingly. The DOJ noted in May that the INS has denied admission to all of three aliens (including one who was believed to be a money-launderer) on the security grounds expanded in Section 411. As for Section 412, it hadn't yet been used as of March. Which is not to say that the INS hasn't detained, deported, or denied admission to bushels of aliens since Sept. 11. But it's generally a big old hassle to deport someone on "security-related" grounds like the ones expanded in Section 411. As the DOJ gingerly put it in May, "security-related grounds of removal may generate more litigation." Through March, every time the INS deported an alien it wasn't keen on, it did so on non-security-related grounds to expedite the removal. Still, the DOJ would like this sunsetted provision to stick around in case any terrorists show up with their visas in perfect order. Would you know if Sections 411 and 412 had been used on you: Well, if you're one of those three excluded aliens, you're probably aware that you're not in the United States right now. Otherwise, it hasn't. Sunsets in 2005: Yes for both. Enough to get you through a cocktail party: These provisions, permitting possibly lengthy detentions based on little more than a John Ashcroft sniff test, would be far more disturbing if aliens weren't subject to far worse abuses at the hands of the administration. Conclusion: In studying and reporting on the most controversial aspects of the Patriot Act, we have attempted to be as evenhanded as possible. It bears repeating that the Bush administration has fostered a good deal of national anxiety by its simple refusal to release information allaying public fears about how the act is being implemented. slate.msn.com