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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Mary Cluney who wrote (60759)	8/16/2004 9:28:20 AM
From: MrLucky	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 793834

How could this statement be true if these distinguished veterans (and they are not the only ones) fully support Kerry: Admiral Stansfield Turner (and former Director of the CIA) Admiral William Crowe (former Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff) General John M Shalikashvili (former Chairman of Joint Chief of Staff) General Merrril McPeak (former Chief of Staff of US Air Force) Lt. General Claudia J Kennedy (highest Ranking female ever) General Wesley Clark (graduated #1 at USMA - Rhodes Scholar) Each one is a strong democrat. Each one was given appointments under clinton. That's why. Some of them are looking for more work in D.C. That's why.

To: Mary Cluney who wrote (60759)	8/16/2004 2:09:50 PM
From: Neeka	Respond to of 793834

Let's turn this around: >>>>>>How could this statement be true if these distinguished veterans (and they are not the only ones) fully support Kerry: How could anyone imagine that 254 distinguished veterans are in on some grand conspiracy to defame a presidential candidate? Why would they put their reputations, not to mention their families and entire estates on the line to do so? Why and for what? >>>>>>>You can't equate our War of Independence with the Vietnam War - by any stretch of the imagination. The SV might have found some correlation and incentive. America's War of Independence has been used a model in other revolutions. >>>>>>.Our War of Independence changed the course of history and advanced civilization several orders of magnitude (at least in my opinion). I'm sure the people of SV wished theirs would have done the same, but we let them down. They now live with a totalitarian dictatorship unable to enjoy the fruits of a free and democratic society. >>>>>>>>>>If we had decided to stay in Vietnam and "win the war" which we easily could have done - IMO - we would still be there - costing tax payers untold billions of dollars - and we would be no safer than we are today - most likely even less safe as our troops would be stretched even further than they are now. You mean like we are in Germany, SK, Japan ect? What is so different about Vietnam? You'd deny them the liberty that other nations around the world deserve and enjoy because you are cheap or selfish? By your own admission, we could have "won" so why didn't we? >>>>>>>>.By leaving Vietnam, we had nothing to lose and everything to gain (Lives of our troops and money that would have been squandered ). By leaving Vietnam, we abandoned untold millions and left them vulnerable and subject to "re-education" starvation, poverty, disease, subjugation and death. That is why Vietnam is thought of as the worse thing we have ever done, not that we went at all. This statement is the callous, and most often used excuse used to defend our withdrawal. We are ashamed of ourselves.....rightfully so. >>>>>>At the same time, no one is, or should be, above the law - they can not unlawfully slander innocent people. If they do, they are at risk to go to court - which victims in our democracy have the right to go to court and ask for justice. That is available to all our citizens - whether they are veterans or not. Yes, slander is a serious charge. Let's find out if Kerry has been unlawfully slandered, and let's hope he takes them to court. He could clear this all up in court, and probably go on to become president. I'm really hoping he takes this to court. M

To: Mary Cluney who wrote (60759)	8/16/2004 5:46:53 PM
From: Ann Corrigan	Respond to of 793834

Mary, the SwiftVets have already exposed one of John Kerry's lies and his campaign is in retreat over his "seared" Christmas in Cambodia debacle. Will Liberals admit that John Kerry is unfit for command if an additional lie is exposed? According to reviews the SwiftVets have documented their accusations against JK in the newly published book "Unfit for Command". That's more than he did for them, when he stated in congressional testimony that all Vietnam vets committed daily atrocities.

To: Mary Cluney who wrote (60759)	8/16/2004 6:17:47 PM
From: Ann Corrigan	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793834

Mary, I thought you might be interested in this: An Interview With Van Odell, a ''Swift Boat Veteran for Truth'' by Judson Cox Monday, August 16, 2004 Judson Cox: Who are you, and who are the ''Swift Boat Veterans for Truth''? Van Odell: I served in the U.S. Navy from October 1966 to October 1972. I was assigned to Coastal Squadron 1 on Swift Boats as a Gunners Mate in Vietnam, on January 9, 1969. During the period January 9, 1969 through July 1969 I served in Coastal Division 11 at An Thoi, RVN. While assigned to Cos Div 11 I served on PCF’s 93, 35, and 10. I was on many of the river patrols on which John Kerry was also assigned. During this time I observed his behavior and some of the incidents that are in dispute. My battle station as gunner's mate was the twin 50-cal gun tub; this position was the highest point on a swift and allowed a 360 degree view of any action. ''Swift Boat Veterans for Truth'' is a group of 254 swift boat veterans, 60 of whom served with John Kerry. We were by his side during the events for which he received his medals. We know the truth. Cox: Why have you come forward now? Odell: We came forward because Sen. Kerry seeks to become the President of the United States of America. We believe that he is unfit to be president, and to make this man Commander in Chief would be demoralizing and dangerous for our military. Also, I now have a young grandson who means the world to me. He is young enough to think his grandfather is the greatest; without trying, I am his hero. It cuts me to the quick to think one day he would study the history of a president who served with me in Viet Nam and read the lies of atrocities committed by Swift Boat sailors, the lies John Kerry told. What others think about me is nothing compared to what my grandson thinks about his grandfather. Cox: What were your experiences with John Kerry in Vietnam? Odell: During the month of March, our crew was given a river patrol mission along with several other boat crews on the Bay Hop River. During our run in, and part of the run out of the river, we encountered no hostile fire. As we exited the river PCF 3 was the lead boat, we were second in the line, PCF 51 was astern of our craft. The other boats were lined up beside us including Kerry’s boat, PCF 94. During the transit we encountered a fishing weir (gill net) stretched across the middle of the river with just enough room on either side to allow a Swift Boat to pass. We passed the fishing weir river left. As the 3 boat passed the weir on the narrowest part of the river it was hit by a mine, which lifted it completely out of the water. I immediately began firing my twin 50’s towards river left to suppress any fire. I fired a couple of hundred rounds and realized we were not receiving any return fire from either bank. The other boats quit firing and we commenced rescue operations for the PCF 3 crew and boat. WE DID NOT RECEIVE ANY FIRE FROM EITHER BANK. Our boat picked up members of the disabled PCF-3. I continued to watch all the area for any VC activity and witnessed the majority of the events of the day. John Kerry received a Bronze Star for this incident, claiming that he saved Jim Rassman’s life, at the risk of his own, while receiving hostile fire. That simply did not happen. Cox: What is your opinion of Sen. Kerry’s fitness for the presidency given these experiences? Odell: He is not fit to be Commander in Chief. Cox: What are the most important facts the voters should know about Kerry’s service in Vietnam? Odell: He lied. He lied about his service. He lied before the Congress of the United States about atrocities committed by Vietnam Veterans. His ''eye witness accounts'' of rapes, murders, and torture by Swift Boat sailors were fabricated, and they tarred honorable veterans with a stain that still exists today. His entire career in politics and his campaign for the presidency is a lie. Cox: How have the Kerry campaign and the Democratic Party reacted to your message? Odell: They have lied about our service in Vietnam with Kerry; they lied about our political affiliations. And they are suing us to stop us from exercising our freedom of speech. Cox: What is your party affiliation, and for whom will you vote for president? Odell: I have no party affiliation; I have voted a split ticket all my voting life. In this election the only decision I have made so far is I will NOT support or vote for John Kerry. Cox: Who should have more credibility, and why: the Swift Boat Vets for Truth or the band of brothers? Odell: There are seven men that stand behind Senators Kerry's stories. There are 254 Swift Boat Veterans who stand with us. Out of the 254 there are 60 who served directly with John Kerry and have first hand knowledge of his activities in Vietnam and they include Steve Gardner who served as Kerry's gunner's mate. We all condemn his lies. The seven who support the senator are on his payroll. What we have to gain is our good name back after being called war criminals by a serial liar. Cox: Have you been threatened, either with physical harm or legally? Odell: Not personally. We are being sued by the Democratic National Committee and Kerry Campaign to end our right to freedom of speech--s freedom that we have already paid for with service and blood. We will not let these guys kill our first amendment right. Cox: How do you answer the issue of the funding of your group? Odell: We accept donations from Americans who are interested in getting the truth out. We never allow any donor to tell us what to say. It's our message and it will not be changed by outsiders. Right now, our largest donor is the American people. Since the ad started we have received 5,000 donations totaling $300,000. Cox: Is there anything else you would like to add, that I have not asked? Odell: Kerry recently recanted his statement that he was in Cambodia under illegal orders during Christmas, 1968. This is the second lie he is admitting and I think his house of cards is starting to fall. Cox: Mr. Odell, thank you for your service to our country, for your bravery in standing for the truth, and for granting me this interview.