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Politics : High Tolerance Plasticity -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: chowder who wrote (21285)8/28/2004 1:48:35 PM
From: cnyndwllr  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 23153
 
Yes Dabum, it is a spin machine and both sides are spinning.

In the Swift Boat category, most of the weight of the evidence favors the view that Kerry earned his medals and awards. Reading this thread would lead one to believe otherwise. That's why I post the other side.

That's the problem that Bruce has articulated, ie., people who surround themselves with like-thinking people, shut off those who think differently, and become even more polarized in their views.



To: chowder who wrote (21285)8/28/2004 1:56:56 PM
From: cnyndwllr  Respond to of 23153
 
More spin coming back:

Ex-speaker regrets helping Bush get into Guard
But Bush campaign dismisses statement as nothing newThe Associated Press
Updated: 6:44 a.m. ET Aug. 28, 2004AUSTIN, Texas - In a video posted on the Internet, Ben Barnes, a former Democratic speaker of the Texas House, said he is ashamed he helped President Bush and the sons of other wealthy families get into the Texas Air National Guard in 1968 so they could avoid serving in Vietnam.

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“I got a young man named George W. Bush into the National Guard when I was lieutenant governor of Texas, and I’m not necessarily proud of that, but I did it,” Barnes said in the 45-second video, which was recorded May 27 before a group of John Kerry supporters in Austin. Barnes, who was House speaker when Bush entered the Guard, later became lieutenant governor.

He said he became ashamed after walking through the Vietnam Memorial and looking at the names of people who died.

The video was posted June 25 on the Web site austin4kerry.org but didn’t get much attention until Friday, when Jim Moore, an Austin-based author of books about Bush, sent out e-mail messages calling attention to it, The New York Times reported in Saturday’s editions.

It was the first time Barnes, a Kerry supporter, has discussed his role in getting Bush into the Guard. In 1999, he said he recommended Bush for a pilot’s position at the request of a Bush family friend.

Bush has denied that family influence got him into the Guard.

“It is no surprise that a partisan Democrat is making these statements,” Bush spokeswoman Claire Buchan told the Houston Chronicle. “This was addressed five years ago, and there’s nothing new.”


msnbc.msn.com

Maybe one day we'll actually get a real discussion about why we went into Iraq and whether, and why, we'll stay there or leave. Maybe.



To: chowder who wrote (21285)9/1/2004 11:22:16 PM
From: jim_p  Respond to of 23153
 
Military Record



Unlike McCain, Bush, and Gore,,,,Kerry has adamantly refused to authorize the release of his military records. Most think it's because of his phony battle medals. I think the real reason is below. He was not granted an Honorable Discharge until March 2001, almost 30 years after his ostensible service term had ended!

This is very much out of the ordinary, and highly suspect.

There are 5 classes of Discharge: Honorable, General, Other Than Honorable,

Bad Conduct, and Dishonorable. My guess is that he was Discharged in the '70s, but not Honorably. He appealed this sometime while Clinton was doing trouser-tricks in the Oval Office. Political pressure was applied, and the Honorable Discharge was then granted.

His file is probably rife with reports of this, submissions and hearings on the appeal, reports of his "giving aid and comfort" to the enemy, along with protests that were filed with respect to his alleged valor under fire.

This will blow up in his face before October 15th.

================================================================

On 18 Feb. 1966 John Kerry signed a 6 year enlistment contract with
the Navy (plus a 6-month extension during wartime).

On 18 Feb. 1966 John Kerry also signed an Officer Candidate contract
for 6 years -- 5 years of ACTIVE duty & ACTIVE Naval Reserves, and 1 year of
inactive standby reserves (See items #4 & $5).

Because John Kerry was discharged from TOTAL ACTIVE DUTY of only 3
years and 18 days on 3 Jan. 1970, he was then required to attend 48 drills
per year, and not more than 17 days active duty for training. Kerry was
also subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Additionally, Kerry,
as a commissioned officer, was prohibited from making adverse statements
against his chain of command or statements against his country, especially
during time of war. It is also interesting to note that Kerry did not
obtain an honorable discharge until Mar. 12, 2001 even though his service
obligation should have ended July 1, 1972.

Lt. John Kerry's letter of 21 Nov. 1969 asking for an early release
from active US Navy duty falsely states "My current regular period of
obligated service would be completed in December of this year."

On Jan. 3, 1970 Lt. John Kerry was transferred to the Naval Reserve
Manpower Center in Bainridge, Maryland.

Where are Kerry's Performance Records for 2 years of obligated Ready
Reserve, the 48 drills per year required and his 17 days of active duty per
year training while Kerry was in the Ready Reserves? Have these records
been released?

Has anyone ever talked to Kerry's Commanding Officer at the Naval
Reserve Center where Kerry drilled?

On 1 July 1972 Lt. John Kerry was transferred to Standby Reserve -
Inactive.
On 16 February 1978 Lt. John Kerry was discharged from US Naval
Reserve.

Below are some of the crimes Lt. Kerry USNR committed as a Ready
Reservist, while he was acting as a leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the
War:

1. Lt. Kerry attended many rallies where the Vietcong flag was
displayed while our flag was desecrated, defiled, and mocked, thereby giving
aid and comfort to the enemy.
2. Lt. Kerry was involved in a meeting that voted on assassinating
members of the US Senate.
3. Lt. Kerry lied under oath against fellow soldiers before the US
Senate about crimes committed in Vietnam.
4. Lt. Kerry professed to being a war criminal on national
television, and condemned the military and the USA.
5. Lt. Kerry met with NVA and Vietcong communist leaders in Paris,
in direct violation of the UCMJ and the U.S. Constitution.

Lt. Kerry by his own words & actions violated the UCMJ and the U.S.
Code while serving as a Navy officer. Lt. Kerry stands in violation of
Article 3, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution. Lt. Kerry's 1970 meeting
with NVA Communists in Paris is in direct violation of the UCMJ's Article
104 part 904, and U.S. Code 18 U.S.C. 953. That meeting, and Kerry's
subsequent support of the communists while leading mass protests against our
military in the year that followed, also place him in direct violation of
our Constitution's Article 3, Section 3, which defines treason as "giving
aid and comfort" to the enemy in time of warfare.

The Constitution's Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3, states, "No person
shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President
and Vice-President ... having previously taken an oath . to support the
Constitution of the United States, [who has] engaged in insurrection or
rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."