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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: i-node who wrote (199887)	9/3/2004 1:15:57 AM
From: combjelly	Respond to of 1573430

"The Left doesn't want to give Reagan credit for ending the Cold War." Strawman argument. Try addressing what I said. It wasn't ABC weapons systems that did it. It was the intelligent weapons systems that Carter promoted and funded heavily. The B2 or SDI didn't cause the collapse. It was the Stinger and it's ilk. I know, I am talking reality, but that is life. "Only if you don't respect the fact that Saddam's move into Kuwait was a threat to our national security." Maybe. Of course, the sanctions talk was after the events had started. If sanctions weren't the answer, why propose them? "Uh, I think he did:" Of course, a rational person would think he was talking about reaching out to the nations that we alienated by the bilateral approach we took. Of course, you can take the stance he was talking about reaching out to Al Quida, but that is pretty hard to defend. "And the number isn't relevant." No, it is not. But only a fool takes action without the consensus of allies unless they are sure they won't need them. The fact that now Bush is trying to get those others to kick in to help means he was a fool. If we didn't need them then, we don't need them now. Or maybe we do. Your choice. "I would never consider voting for ANYONE who would insist on the consent of foreign nations for our defense," Fine. I am sure you have a lot of friends who are willing to bail you out regardless of how many problems you cause yourself. One might question the intelligence of said friends, but that is their choice. However, if they have advised you against doing certain things, and you still did them and they refused to bail you out, they aren't being stupid or evil. They are just refusing to be co-dependent... And for what it is worth, in any sort of consensual reality, you haven't proved a thing... But hey, there are some that consider fantasy to be superior to reality...

To: i-node who wrote (199887)	9/3/2004 1:16:27 AM
From: SilentZ	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1573430

>The Right respects our sovereignty, the Left thinks we should cede our sovereignty to other governments. Wrong -- the Left (as far as I can tell) thinks that if we don't give other countries a say, they won't help us out when we could use their help. 90% of "coalition" casualties in Iraq have been American. -Z

To: i-node who wrote (199887)	9/3/2004 1:37:15 AM
From: combjelly	Respond to of 1573430

"Only if you don't respect the fact that Saddam's move into Kuwait was a threat to our national security." On reflection, you are correct. Any Senator that took a President at his word after Saddam invaded Kuwait was a fool. You do know that Sir Bush the Old didn't propose the sanctions until after the invasion, don't you?

To: i-node who wrote (199887)	9/3/2004 1:47:24 AM
From: tejek	Respond to of 1573430

Cheney delivers a hatchet job on 'confused' Kerry By Rupert Cornwell in New York 02 September 2004 Dick Cheney, the Vice-President, last night delivered a stinging attack on John Kerry, arguing that the Democratic challenger simply could not be trusted with the White House at a crossroads in US history, when the stakes for the country could not be higher. Criticising the Massachusetts senator for weakness and vacillation, Mr Cheney told the Republican convention here that the US had reached "a defining moment" when its leader had to make "fundamental decisions" about how to confront the long-term challenge of terrorism abroad, and how to keep Americans safe at home. "On the question of America's role in the world, the differences between Senator Kerry and President Bush are the sharpest, and the stakes for the country are the highest," said the man who is regarded as the most powerful vice-president of modern times, and an architect of the invasion of Iraq. Setting the stage for Mr Bush's own acceptance speech tonight, Mr Cheney zeroed in on Mr Kerry for his constant changes of mind during 20 years in the Senate. By contrast, the Bush administration would "never lose sight of the greatest challenge of our time: preserving the freedom and security of this nation against determined enemies". Hours before Mr Cheney spoke, Mr Kerry hit back with a broadside against Mr Bush's handling of the war on terror, seizing on the President's recent acknowledgement he had made "miscalculations" over the post-war occupation of Iraq. Addressing the American Legion veterans group in Nashville, Mr Kerry argued that the botched occupation had strengthened the terrorists' hand. "Safe havens have been created, our troops have been forced to reach accommodations with the enemy, Iran has expanded its influence, and the extremists have gained momentum," he declared. The Democrat candidate dispelled the notion that his Iraq policy was the same as that of Mr Bush. "When it comes to Iraq, I would not have done one thing differently I would have done almost everything differently," Mr Kerry said. With his appearance in Nashville, Mr Kerry broke the unwritten rule of US elections campaign that a major party candidate lies low during his rival's convention. But his foray reflects Democrat anxiety confirmed by opinion polls that the challenger has lost the initiative in the presidential race, battered by accusations from fellow Vietnam veterans that he lied over his decorated record, and failing to take the political battle to his opponents. Yesterday, Karl Rove, Mr Bush's chief political adviser and merciless campaign hit-man, took his own swipe at Mr Kerry. Mr Rove, who secured a student deferment to avoid going to Vietnam, accused the candidate of "tarnishing the record and service" of fellow veterans. The charge will only fuel Democratic charges that the Bush re-election team is quietly co-ordinating with the independent group behind the anti-Kerry attack ads, the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. Mr Cheney who secured five student deferments to avoid Vietnam was unlikely to raise the subject himself in Madison Square Garden last night, given the controversy he already attracts over his connections to the controversial oil services group Halliburton, and the perception that he is the sinister backstage architect of policies on Iraq, many of which had backfired. Polls gave Mr Cheney an unfavourable rating yesterday. A separate survey suggested that if, allowed to choose a vice-president separately from his boss, voters would go clearly for the Democrat John Edwards. Even so, despite intermittent rumours that Mr Cheney would be dropped from the ticket as Mr Bush's approval ratings fell during the summer, there was never a realistic chance of that happening. The prominence accorded Mr Cheney here, and his appeal to conservatives, have buried such talk. Mr Bush was due to visit a fire station in New York last night in an attempt to squeeze a last drop from the approaching third anniversary of the 11 September attacks. He was following the example of Mr Schwarzenegger, who on Tuesday paid an unannounced visit to another fire station before delivering the smash-hit speech of the convention so far. news.independent.co.uk