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Politics : Just the Facts, Ma'am: A Compendium of Liberal Fiction -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Orcastraiter who wrote (15652)9/7/2004 1:05:41 PM
From: Original Mad Dog  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 90947
 
Communist governments with a tolerance for dissent. Let's see, there was Stalin's Russia... oops, bad example.

China in June 1989. There's a better example.

Cambodia under Pol Pot? I'm sure that energized those in Laos and Vietnam who might have wanted to protest.

Vietnam itself after 1975 is another case study in how absolutely thrilled many in Vietnam were that the "struggle" (in your view, caused by America) had ended:

In the years immediately after 1975, only a small trickle of Vietnamese left on boats. They went to destinations throughout the area: to Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, Hong Kong, and the Philippines. But by 1977, the trickle was becoming a torrent. The exodus of those getting out of Vietnam had less to do with the legacy of war than with the new policies pursued by Vietnam's unified revolutionary government. Tough times had come to Vietnam. Compounded by the breakout of fighting between Vietnam and its Khmer Rouge neighbor in Cambodia, more and more Vietnamese began seeking refuge outside Vietnam.

By the end of 1977, more than 15,600 Vietnamese had landed on the shores of Southeast Asian countries and Hong Kong. Even at these relatively small numbers, their arrival was alarming and unwelcome. Governments in the area did not want to consider letting these refugees stay in their countries. Most governments there felt that the continuing departure of refugees from Indochina was a residual American problem resulting from the Vietnam War. They didn't even want to call them "refugees." In fact, throughout this entire time, all of the first asylum countries in the area referred to these people mostly as "displaced persons."

Most of the countries in the area had somewhat stable but historically delicate "balanced" multi-ethnic societies. They feared that the arrival and permanent resettlement of Vietnamese, especially ethnically Chinese Vietnamese, could upset that balance in their countries.

At the same time, the first of those who had been detained in re-education camps because of their association with the United States, and other people of high priority to the United States, were not getting out of Vietnam to benefit from international refugee protection or resettlement.

In March 1978, Vietnam nationalized the rice and other private consumer markets, and the number of people leaving Vietnam started increasing, a majority of them being ethnic Chinese businessmen and traders. This exodus was abetted by Vietnamese authorities pushing out some of the 1.5 million ethnic Chinese in both North and South Vietnam after blaming them for some of the country's economic problems. Many of them were subjected to "official harassment, property confiscation, and forced relocation to New Economic Zones." (Robinson, at 29.)

Some fled northern Vietnam into China; by the time the government closed the border with China in July 1978, some 160,000 ethnic Chinese had fled or been expelled into the Guangxi and Yunnan provinces in China (see map). This number grew by some 8,000 more each month until, by the end of 1978, 200,000 ethnic Chinese had fled into China. [In all, 240,000 mostly ethnic Chinese Vietnamese would flee to and be resettled in China.]

Other Vietnamese, again mostly ethnic Chinese, began leaving other parts of Vietnam as boat people: paying customers of increasingly lucrative smuggling operations, often undertaken with the concurrence, and often the participation, of local Vietnamese government officials. Boats used for departure got larger and larger including some so-called "iron boats" bearing hundreds and even a thousand passengers. Some fled north along the coast to Hong Kong and landed there, while others went on across the South China Sea to the Philippines. Most went south toward Thailand and, when that became too dangerous because of pirates and thieves, they diverted first to Malaysia, and then on to Indonesia.

In late 1978, Malaysia started preventing boat people from landing on its shores, or, if they landed, they were towed back out to sea. In November 1978, UNHCR was able to have its local Representative interview some passengers on one of the ships not allowed to land in Malaysia. He cabled his analysis and recommendations to UNHCR's headquarters in Geneva, Switzerland. In a November 14, 1978, reply to the field, UNHCR stated that "in the future, boat cases from Vietnam [should] be considered prima facie of concern to UNHCR ...." With this cable and its underlying policy, UNHCR was establishing what would become a decade-long policy of considering any and all Vietnamese boat people "of concern to UNHCR," meaning that they had de facto refugee status, the legal protection of UNHCR, and an opportunity to seek a durable solution through voluntary repatriation, local settlement in a country of first asylum, or resettlement to a third country such as the United States. (Robinson, at 28-29.)

Overwhelmingly during this time, resettlement, through a process involving countries of first or temporary asylum, countries of resettlement, and UNHCR, was the only really viable durable solution. Each resettlement country set its own priorities for identifying and selecting who got resettled; the U.S. was pre-eminent among them. Refugee processing priorities of the United States were developed that were detailed and focused on specific populations.

As the number of people leaving Vietnam continued to escalate, neither local governments in the area around Vietnam nor the international community could keep up with the flow. In some cases, the Vietnamese boat people went until they found land, then beached their boats and burned them so they would be stranded. In one early instance, a relatively uninhabited island of Pulau Bidong off the eastern coast of Malaysia became home to hundreds of boat people -- like Nguyen Si -- who just landed there on their own and set about making a camp. By the time government authorities discovered them and promised the help of the international community, the several hundred Vietnamese had swelled to several thousand. By the time the UNHCR got relief supplies to it, the population had swelled to several tens of thousand. All were unwelcome by Malaysian authorities.

In response to this onslaught, Malaysia continued to push some boats back to sea. Some of these went back up to Thailand or on to Indonesia, although Thailand, too, started towing boats back out to sea before cutting them loose. More than a few boatloads of Vietnamese simply disappeared -- and may have sunk. Other boats continued leaving Vietnam by going north toward Hong Kong and when that, too, got unfriendly, they went over to the Philippines.

On the high seas, boat people were easy prey for pirates who would attack, rob, rape, kidnap, and kill. Sometimes, these boat people would seek rescue from passing ships on the high seas. However, by the end of 1978, potential rescue ships, spotting boat people on the high seas, increasingly did not stop to rescue them.

From 1975 to 1978, UNHCR statistics show that ships from 31 countries had rescued some 8,674 people from 186 boats. But, in the months leading to the July Conference, as boat arrivals in the region were swelling to over 177,000, only 47 boats were rescued with 4,593 people onboard. Almost half of these rescues were by ships with registrations in Norway, the Netherlands, and the United Kingdom.

The reasons for the downturn were the serious and negative consequences of this humanitarian act: ship's captains and boat owners were often subjected to extensive delays at a cost of thousands of dollars per day in a nearby harbor, while local governments' conditions of disembarkation usually required the country of the ship's registry to pledge in writing and through official diplomatic channels resettlement for all rescued Vietnamese. Some Vietnamese boats were fortunate enough to be rescued by ships such as the USS Whipple. Whipple Crewman Mark Roberts tells the tale of rescues in August 1978, and one of the rescued Vietnamese remembers.

In December 1978, Vietnam invaded Cambodia, and a month later China invaded Vietnam, prompting new refugee movements.

By the end of 1978, almost 62,000 boat people were in camps in nine countries in Southeast and East Asia, with over 46,000 in Malaysia, 4,800 in Hong Kong, and 3,600 in Thailand (Robinson, at 32). In addition, Thailand hosted, albeit reluctantly, over 140,000 people displaced from Cambodia and Laos. In all, some 61,000 Vietnamese had landed in Malaysia in 1978 (40,000 of whom came in the last three months of the year), while 2,800 arrived in Indonesia. At the same time, Malaysia pushed back almost 5,000 Vietnamese. In 1978, the Malaysian Navy prevented some 51,400 Vietnamese in 386 boats from landing in Malaysia. (Robinson, at 42-43.) Also in 1978, and not coincidentally, almost 49,000 Vietnamese boat people would arrive instead in Indonesia. The flow was not deterred by these unilateral actions, only deflected. And many still died.



uscis.gov (There's more at that link -- above is just an excerpt)

It's worth noting that the conditions on those boats were hardly like those on cruise liners.... these people risked their lives, many gave their lives, to leave, because resistance was futile.

Cuba is another example which has spawned mass migration. Eastern Europe under communism saw many fleeing (and being shot at the Berlin Wall).

We don't really know whether the Vietnamese people "stopped fighting" (your words) since the unified Vietnamese government controlled the media and there were few ways of discerning what was really happening. But a torrent of refugees sure didn't seem thrilled with the new order.

Why don't you post, along with your sentiments about communism, a list of communist countries, now or throughout history, with a policy of freely allowing those who wish to leave to simply pack up their things and leave? You at least can leave America if you wish (and if somebody will take you). Communist governments don't seem to like affording that freedom to their people.