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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: michael97123 who wrote (145127)9/8/2004 4:25:36 PM
From: Neocon  Respond to of 281500
 
There is always another option, like abject surrender. Anyone who waits to exhaust all options is likely to encourage what could have been stopped earlier at less cost, because the unwillingness to draw a line encourages further demands, and permits greater preparation for war.

We should take all reasonable precautions to conserve life, but we cannot dictate all events in battle. If the enemy tries to hide behind citizens, while killing us, we may very well have larger than expected collateral damage.

Mission creep? We adapt to an evolving set of circumstances. We cannot say if there will be a change of mission, because we cannot foresee every contingency. Of course we do not want things to get out of hand, but some revision of plans is normal.



To: michael97123 who wrote (145127)9/8/2004 6:45:54 PM
From: GST  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
We had very viable alternatives and chose war. The alternatives were not only viable, they included options that would have provided ways to go to war with a lower loss of American lives and without mission creep. That is what is so awful about this war -- we had choices, we made bad ones. We violated all three of the areas of restraint I mentioned -- we chose war when there were better options, and in choosing to invade when and as we did under a policy of unilateral action we forced other countries that could and should have been with us to back off, this cost us dearly in every way, and continues to cost us dearly to this day. We could have and should have had a broad coalition. This would have required extending the period of inspections. There was zero need to curtail inspections at the time we decided to invade instead. The inspections would have shown what we now know to be true -- no WMDs in Iraq. This would have thwarted the call for war -- a good thing with hindsight. If Saddam had played his cards as he had played them, it could also have been the basis to build a coalition to remove him -- less likely but also possible. Invading in this way, under the flag of the UN, would have had obvious and profound advantages. In the meantime, we could have made far more progress on our real national security priority -- the real war on terror. Instead, we have engaged in constant mission creep, where at this point nobody really knows what the missionis or how long this mess will be dragged out. To make matters worse, the region is showing signs of disintegrating as we have destabilized not only Iraq, but the power balance and opportunities for other players to exploit the mess we have created. We have shown no restraint whatsoever.



To: michael97123 who wrote (145127)9/8/2004 7:11:45 PM
From: GST  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
George Bush Sr. got it right -- there was no appeasement and their was no march into Baghdad. George Bush Jr. had every opportunity to get it right -- but he didn't, and now we are left to debate what to do about the horrendous mess that we and the Iraqis are in. George Bush Sr. did not need a coaltion to kick Saddam's ass back to Baghdad -- but he took the time and trouble to build a coalition the likes of which was never seen before. And Junior? Junior decided to throw in our lot with people who scoff at the idea that the US needs to build broad-based coalitions -- and please spare me the list of countries like Albania and Ethiopia who are "with us". No, this time we would throw our weight around as a superpower -- thump our chest and yell "nobody is going to tell us what we can and cannot do". Now we send our children to be killed in Baghdad -- and for what? Oh ya, I forgot, we have a "new mission". Iraq is now a thriving flowerbed for democracy and things are going really, really well -- I know this because neocon so often tells us about the glories of the invasion of Iraq.