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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: carranza2 who wrote (68954)	9/10/2004 4:43:39 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Respond to of 793575

We should be in a much better PR position in the world after 9/11. We had a lot of goodwill built the which has disappeared everywhere I part company with you there, c2. We had sorrow mixed with schadenfreude more than good will imo. The so-called good will all evaporated instantly the moment we got off our knees and decided to do something. But Bush could do more to manage the reaction of the rest of the world, if he had the rhetorical and diplomatic skills of a Tony Blair. The stuff routinely thrown in an American President's face, like "gotta solve Israel/Pal first! can't do anything else until that's done!" is the ultimate Tar Baby. If Clinton's efforts didn't prove it, nothing will. Bush was wise to keep putting out plans that demanded Arab cooperation, there. Because the Arab world would have loved nothing better than the old game of forcing concessions from Israel while they themselves continue business as usual.

To: carranza2 who wrote (68954)	9/10/2004 6:24:16 PM
From: t4texas	Respond to of 793575

the point is specious. you mistake sorrow for goodwill. clinton was hated in the ME too. i am sure you have seen the al qaida training films in which they use clinton's picture as the bayonet or rifle target in a training building. the world did not feel plus or minus about clinton, because he did nothing. if i am wrong about this, what did clinton do other than chinese direct foreign investment ease (which has nothing to do with islamofascists)? i am not trying to parse words, but the goodwill that you say bush needs to implement his plans is incorrect. he needs solidarity for his leadership position against the islamofascists (even though bush can't say islamofascists yet. he must still say "hijacked religion."). solidarity is hard to obtain until other countries are whacked hard. countries seek idle self interest rather than a big picture of the world situation in the steady state, and a very large perturbation is needed to change that steady state. let's see how russia resolves this latest attack on itself, a mega-perturbation. will they go spanish or american -- let's see. winston churchill had this same solidarity problem in europe pre-wwII. he could not get his own uk to pay attention until hitler invaded poland in september, 1939. then in sept. 1939 chamberlain's govt. put him in charge of the navy (admiralty). churchill did not become prime minister until may, 1940. see how slow the recognition of the problem took! the usa was no help for a long time, and let's recall that john kennedy's, robert kennedy's, and ted kennedy's father, joe kennedy acted like france acts today, i.e, joe kennedy, the us ambassador to the uk, wanted to try to coexist with hitler and other dictatorships. he made The speech on it in 1938 in the uk. after the usa got whacked by the japanese at pearl harbor and germany declared war on the usa december 11, the us population finally Got It in 1941. they were finally ready to make the sacrifice. that thing churchill said about appeasers throwing their friends to the alligators hoping they are eaten last finally got through to the america population. as twain said about history, i.e, it rhymes. a large percentage of the american population still has not gotten the enemy at hand today. i suppose australian and the uk populations are still way behind in understanding the enemy at hand too. i am assuming a large number of russians are waking up to the enemy at hand with the attack in their homeland. will the russians go spanish or go bush? how long before americans, brits, aussies, and russian, et al, populations as a large majority are willing to make the sacrifices needed to destroy the islamofascists? how long will it require and how midieval are things going to have to get before the non-islamofascists get it?