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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sam who wrote (146240)	9/23/2004 1:35:16 PM
From: stockman_scott	Respond to of 281500

Commitment plus stubbornness got us into the Iraq quagmire. Commitment plus flexibility can get us out. Bush’s cocky swagger won’t make America safer...A consultant recently remarked that "Bush's stubborn refusal to admit that we need to change policies in Iraq and here at home is simply bull-headed and downright dangerous." Mr. Bush has failed the CEO test...It is so clear to many of us that he must be fired...We need a new leader of The United States that is respected around the world...We need a leader that will be pragmatic and flexible...We need to get out of Iraq with dignity and credibility -- Mr. Bush is not the man for the job...JMHO. -s2@ConcernedCitizen.com

To: Sam who wrote (146240)	9/23/2004 2:39:34 PM
From: jjkirk	Respond to of 281500

Re: Perhaps this is just a massive deception, just election year shadowplay. You ain't seen nothing yet...wait until November 1st when we trot out Osama...He's a hard man to fatten up...won't eat...I think he wants to generate sympathy for his trial... jj

To: Sam who wrote (146240)	9/23/2004 10:10:43 PM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi Sam; Re: "I heard nothing to indicate that Bush will back off in any way after the election. Sure there are bumps, it is difficult to move from a dictatorship to freedom, but it will happen, we will succeed, we aren't leaving just because of a few difficulties. Perhaps this is just a massive deception, just election year shadowplay." It's not just deception for election purposes, it is alsom quite useful (and traditional) to lie about one's intentions in wartime. To expect your leaders to speak the truth in peacetime is naive. To expect them to speak the truth in wartime is idiocy. Furthermore, Kerry is saying pretty much the same thing. As far as saying that they are going to "stay the course", Nixon (and Johnson before him) said the same thing. Right now, it is the opinion of the American public that we should stay in Iraq in order to "help" them. Under this circumstance, and with a shooting war going on, it's silly to expect our politicians to tell us anything other than a version of what we want to hear. That is, Bush tells us that we're going to win, and Kerry says that we will win if we elect him. I don't expect Bush to pull us out soon after the election. Hell, the Brits and Italians haven't pulled out and their electorates are more against the war than our own. But I don't see Kerry making any promises to pull out either. The simple fact is that who you vote for President in 2004 (as opposed to 2000) is not likely to much effect the progress of the war in Iraq. It's human nature to continue useless fights until it becomes really, really, really obvious that it's hopeless to a lot of those involved. Since the US is one hell of a strong country, it takes quite some time for the population to figure that out. If Kerry were elected and did pull us out he would be blamed for "losing" Iraq just as Presidents before him were blamed for "losing" Cuba, Russia or China. This is a certainty of politics and Kerry is well aware of it. That's why Kerry isn't promising to pull out. He has no intention of pulling out before the American people cry "uncle". -- Carl