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Politics : Just the Facts, Ma'am: A Compendium of Liberal Fiction -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Orcastraiter who wrote (17620)9/24/2004 7:59:26 PM
From: Oeconomicus  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 90947
 
So what are the facts? The fact is that Saddam never got any yellowcake from Africa.

You're confusing fact and assertion again.



To: Orcastraiter who wrote (17620)9/24/2004 8:54:57 PM
From: Jagfan  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 90947
 
No WMD? What about all the artillary shells with sarin? Enough to kill 500,000. How much killing capacity is needed to be a WMD???



To: Orcastraiter who wrote (17620)9/24/2004 9:08:37 PM
From: DavesM  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 90947
 
Actually, Richard Clarke (in his book) and Secretary of Defense Cohen (in his testimony to the 9-11 Commission), both said that the reason that the United States attacked and destroyed the only pharmacuetical plant in the Sudan, is because they linked al Qaeda, Iraq, and the development of chemical weapons at the property.

re:"The facts still remain, no yellow cake, no WMD, no ties to Al Qaeda "



To: Orcastraiter who wrote (17620)9/25/2004 9:46:40 AM
From: Sully-  Respond to of 90947
 
LOL! Once again, when caught telling blatant lies, you change
the subject.

When you can point me to credible evidence to support your
so-called "facts", I'll actually reply to you. Until then,
anything you claim to be "facts" will be no different to me
than John Kerry stating "facts" - complete BS until
independently verified by a credible source.



To: Orcastraiter who wrote (17620)9/25/2004 10:13:05 AM
From: Sully-  Respond to of 90947
 
"The facts still remain, no yellow cake, no WMD, no ties to Al Qaeda"

I couldn't resist.......

Investigative Report
Saddam's WMD Have Been Found

Post April 26, 2004
By Kenneth R. Timmerman

New evidence out of Iraq suggests that the U.S. effort to track down Saddam Hussein's missing weapons of mass destruction (WMD) is having better success than is being reported. Key assertions by the intelligence community that were widely judged in the media and by critics of President George W. Bush as having been false are turning out to have been true after all. But this stunning news has received little attention from the major media, and the president's critics continue to insist that "no weapons" have been found.

In virtually every case - chemical, biological, nuclear and ballistic missiles - the United States has found the weapons and the programs that the Iraqi dictator successfully concealed for 12 years from U.N. weapons inspectors.

The Iraq Survey Group (ISG), whose intelligence analysts are managed by Charles Duelfer, a former State Department official and deputy chief of the U.N.-led arms-inspection teams, has found "hundreds of cases of activities that were prohibited" under U.N. Security Council resolutions, a senior administration official tells Insight. "There is a long list of charges made by the U.S. that have been confirmed, but none of this seems to mean anything because the weapons that were unaccounted for by the United Nations remain unaccounted for."

Both Duelfer and his predecessor, David Kay, reported to Congress that the evidence they had found on the ground in Iraq showed Saddam's regime was in "material violation" of U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441, the last of 17 resolutions that promised "serious consequences" if Iraq did not make a complete disclosure of its weapons programs and dismantle them in a verifiable manner. The United States cited Iraq's refusal to comply with these demands as one justification for going to war.

Both Duelfer and Kay found that Iraq had "a clandestine network of laboratories and safe houses with equipment that was suitable to continuing its prohibited chemical- and biological-weapons [BW] programs," the official said. "They found a prison laboratory where we suspect they tested biological weapons on human subjects." They found equipment for "uranium-enrichment centrifuges" whose only plausible use was as part of a clandestine nuclear-weapons program. In all these cases, "Iraqi scientists had been told before the war not to declare their activities to the U.N. inspectors," the official said.....

...."Reference strains" of a wide variety of biological-weapons agents were found beneath the sink in the home of a prominent Iraqi BW scientist. "We thought it was a big deal," a senior administration official said. "But it has been written off [by the press] as a sort of 'starter set.'"

New research on BW-applicable agents, brucella and Congo-Crimean hemorrhagic fever, and continuing work on ricin and aflatoxin that were not declared to the United Nations.....

....In testimony before Congress on March 30, Duelfer, revealed that the ISG had found evidence of a "crash program" to construct new plants capable of making chemical- and biological-warfare agents. The ISG also found a previously undeclared program to build a "high-speed rail gun," a device apparently designed for testing nuclear-weapons materials. That came in addition to 500 tons of natural uranium stockpiled at Iraq's main declared nuclear site south of Baghdad, which International Atomic Energy Agency spokesman Mark Gwozdecky acknowledged to Insight had been intended for "a clandestine nuclear-weapons program."....

....In an interview with Insight and in an article he wrote for the online magazine AmericanThinker.com, Hanson examines reports from U.S. combat units and public information confirming that many of Iraq's CW stockpiles have indeed been found. Until now, however, journalists have devoted scant attention to this evidence, in part because it contradicts the story line they have been putting forward since the U.S.-led inspections began after the war.

But another reason for the media silence may stem from the seemingly undramatic nature of the "finds" Hanson and others have described. The materials that constitute Saddam's chemical-weapons "stockpiles" look an awful lot like pesticides, which they indeed resemble. "Pesticides are the key elements in the chemical-agent arena," Hanson says. "In fact, the general pesticide chemical formula (organophosphate) is the 'grandfather' of modern-day nerve agents."

The United Nations was fully aware that Saddam had established his chemical-weapons plants under the guise of a permitted civilian chemical-industry infrastructure. Plants inspected in the early 1990s as CW production facilities had been set up to appear as if they were producing pesticides - or in the case of a giant plant near Fallujah, chlorine, which is used to produce mustard gas.

When coalition forces entered Iraq, "huge warehouses and caches of 'commercial and agricultural' chemicals were seized and painstakingly tested by Army and Marine chemical specialists," Hanson writes. "What was surprising was how quickly the ISG refuted the findings of our ground forces and how silent they have been on the significance of these caches."

Caches of "commercial and agricultural" chemicals don't match the expectation of "stockpiles" of chemical weapons. But, in fact, that is precisely what they are. "At a very minimum," Hanson tells Insight, "they were storing the precursors to restart a chemical-warfare program very quickly." Kay and Duelfer came to a similar conclusion, telling Congress under oath that Saddam had built new facilities and stockpiled the materials to relaunch production of chemical and biological weapons at a moment's notice.

At Karbala, U.S. troops stumbled upon 55-gallon drums of pesticides at what appeared to be a very large "agricultural supply" area, Hanson says. Some of the drums were stored in a "camouflaged bunker complex" that was shown to reporters - with unpleasant results. "More than a dozen soldiers, a Knight-Ridder reporter, a CNN cameraman, and two Iraqi POWs came down with symptoms consistent with exposure to a nerve agent," Hanson says. "But later ISG tests resulted in a proclamation of negative, end of story, nothing to see here, etc., and the earlier findings and injuries dissolved into nonexistence. Left unexplained is the small matter of the obvious pains taken to disguise the cache of ostensibly legitimate pesticides. One wonders about the advantage an agricultural-commodities business gains by securing drums of pesticide in camouflaged bunkers 6 feet underground. The 'agricultural site' was also colocated with a military ammunition dump - evidently nothing more than a coincidence in the eyes of the ISG."

That wasn't the only significant find by coalition troops of probable CW stockpiles, Hanson believes. Near the northern Iraqi town of Bai'ji, where Saddam had built a chemical-weapons plant known to the United States from nearly 12 years of inspections, elements of the 4th Infantry Division found 55-gallon drums containing a substance identified through mass spectrometry analysis as cyclosarin - a nerve agent. Nearby were surface-to-surface and surface-to-air missiles, gas masks and a mobile laboratory that could have been used to mix chemicals at the site. "Of course, later tests by the experts revealed that these were only the ubiquitous pesticides that everybody was turning up," Hanson says. "It seems Iraqi soldiers were obsessed with keeping ammo dumps insect-free, according to the reading of the evidence now enshrined by the conventional wisdom that 'no WMD stockpiles have been discovered.'"

At Taji - an Iraqi weapons complex as large as the District of Columbia - U.S. combat units discovered more "pesticides" stockpiled in specially built containers, smaller in diameter but much longer than the standard 55-gallon drum. Hanson says he still recalls the military sending digital images of the canisters to his office, where his boss at the Ministry of Science and Technology translated the Arabic-language markings. "They were labeled as pesticides," he says. "Gee, you sure have got a lot of pesticides stored in ammo dumps."

Again, this January, Danish forces found 120-millimeter mortar shells filled with a mysterious liquid that initially tested positive for blister agents. But subsequent tests by the United States disputed that finding. "If it wasn't a chemical agent, what was it?" Hanson asks. "More pesticides? Dish-washing detergent? From this old soldier's perspective, I gain nothing from putting a liquid in my mortar rounds unless that stuff will do bad things to the enemy."

The discoveries Hanson describes are not dramatic. And that's the problem: Finding real stockpiles in grubby ammo dumps doesn't fit the image the media and the president's critics carefully have fed to the public of what Iraq's weapons ought to look like.

A senior administration official who has gone through the intelligence reporting from Iraq as well as the earlier reports from U.N. arms inspectors refers to another well-documented allegation. "The Iraqis admitted they had made 3.9 tons of VX," a powerful nerve gas, but claimed they had never weaponized it. The U.N. inspectors "felt they had more. But where did it go?" The Iraqis never provided any explanation of what had happened to their VX stockpiles.

What does 3.9 tons of VX look like? "It could fit in one large garage," the official says. Assuming, of course, that Saddam would assemble every bit of VX gas his scientists had produced at a single site, that still amounts to one large garage in an area the size of the state of California.

Senior administration officials stress that the investigation will continue as inspectors comb through millions of pages of documents in Iraq and attempt to interview Iraqi weapons scientists who have been trained all their professional lives to conceal their activities from the outside world.

"The conditions under which the ISG is working are not very conducive," one official said. "But this president wants the truth to come out. This is not an exercise in spinning or censoring."

For more on WMD, read "Iraqi Weapons in Syria"


Kenneth R. Timmerman is a senior writer for Insight.

insightmag.com.

dev.siliconinvestor.com



To: Orcastraiter who wrote (17620)9/25/2004 10:39:59 AM
From: Sully-  Respond to of 90947
 
Saddam agents on Syria border helped move banned materials
By Rowan Scarborough
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
dev.siliconinvestor.com

Banned Arms Flowed Into Iraq Through Syrian Firm

dev.siliconinvestor.com

Sarin, Mustard Gas Discovered Separately in Iraq
Monday, May 17, 2004

dev.siliconinvestor.com

Iraq Survey Chief: More WMD Found
Friday, June 25, 2004:

The head of the U.S. team conducting the search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq announced on Thursday that his group has uncovered at least ten more artillery shells filled with banned chemical weapons and is finding new WMD evidence "almost every day."..........

dev.siliconinvestor.com



To: Orcastraiter who wrote (17620)9/25/2004 11:04:32 AM
From: Sully-  Respond to of 90947
 
Possible Saddam-Al Qaeda Link Seen in U.N. Oil-for-Food Program
dev.siliconinvestor.com

The 9/11 Commission and the Connection
dev.siliconinvestor.com

The Senate Intelligence Committee & the links between Iraq
and al Qaeda; Saddam & Terrorism....

dev.siliconinvestor.com

Putin: Saddam Planned Terrorism In US

dev.siliconinvestor.com

Here's 9/11 Commission Chair Thomas Kean during the press conference for the release of the commission'a final report today: There is "no question in our minds that there was a
relationship between Iraq and al Queda."

dev.siliconinvestor.com

The Connection
From the June 7, 2004 issue: The collaboration of Iraq and al Qaeda.
dev.siliconinvestor.com

Enemies Together
Clinton was right: Saddam and al Qaeda had numerous connections

dev.siliconinvestor.com

9/11 Commission Report: Iraq

dev.siliconinvestor.com

Saddam and bin Laden: Alliance of Evil

dev.siliconinvestor.com

The Story of Salmon Pak

edwardjayepstein.com

Saddam, Al-Qaeda Linked Through Al-Zarqawi

dev.siliconinvestor.com

One major newspaper gets it right:Al Qaeda, Iraq--and war
dev.siliconinvestor.com

The Clinton View of Iraq-al Qaeda Ties

dev.siliconinvestor.com

More Connections
Two new members of the Iraqi interim government insist that Saddam and al Qaeda were linked.
dev.siliconinvestor.com

Saddam & Al Qaeda links?
Case Closed
dev.siliconinvestor.com

Found: A Smoking Gun
dev.siliconinvestor.com

Missing Links Found
dev.siliconinvestor.com

Saddam's Ambassador to al Qaeda
dev.siliconinvestor.com

Saddam's Files
New evidence of a link between Iraq and al Qaeda.
dev.siliconinvestor.com

It is interesting that many who criticize Bush for
not "connecting the dots" before Sept. 11 are also
criticizing those who connect the dots on Iraq-Al Qaeda ties

The 'Bush lied' crowd is way off base

dev.siliconinvestor.com

Wouldn't This Be Collaboration?
dev.siliconinvestor.com

The Saddam-Osama Memo (cont.)
A close examination of the Defense Department's latest statement
dev.siliconinvestor.com

Iraqis, Seeking Foes of Saudis, Contacted bin Laden, File Says
dev.siliconinvestor.com