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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: i-node who wrote (204823)	10/3/2004 12:56:59 PM
From: TigerPaw	Respond to of 1573073

This is the Kerry response that most worries neocons: When you guard the oil ministry, but you don't guard the nuclear facilities, the message to a lot of people is maybe, "Wow, maybe they're interested in our oil." Now, the problem is that they didn't think these things through properly. And these are the things you have to think through. What I want to do is change the dynamics on the ground. And you have to do that by beginning to not back off of the Fallujahs and other places, and send the wrong message to the terrorists. You have to close the borders. You've got to show you're serious in that regard. But you've also got to show that you are prepared to bring the rest of the world in and share the stakes. I will make a flat statement: The United States of America has no long-term designs on staying in Iraq. Cheney started this war for oil, and if the U.S. does not remain in Iraq until the wells are pumped dry he will consider it a failure. This is also the key to international cooperation. Nobody is going to help us loot the country, but they will help in bringing stability to an important region. TP

To: i-node who wrote (204823)	10/3/2004 2:20:07 PM
From: Elroy	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1573073

But Bush made the most important point of the debate (lost on 90% of the viewers) when he hammered the idea that Kerry would be able to convince other nations to join him in the "wrong war at the wrong time", etc. It is pure and utter nonsense. Perhaps. Then again Kerry may be able to get the UN to take part in rebuilding Iraq (something really easy to support morally and politically) that destroying Iraq. I'm no UN fan, but its not hard to imagine Kerry saying in January '05 that we are pulling out 40k US troops in September '05, UN get off your fat asses and replace them or what the hell is your function, and getting a reasonable response. George would definitely get the cold shoulder. I agree with Powell's assessment -- we broke it, we bought it. It is our war. And that's as it SHOULD be. Well I don't want US troops in Iraq for 10-20 years fighting a guerilla war if it stays broke. It is totally, abundantly clear that the elections will happen on schedule. I believe it is highly likely we'll apply stepped up pressure against the insurgents over the next couple of weeks to bring about an end to it. Hope you're right. We'll see. Your pitch sounds good, however, it also may happen that in each of these "stepped up pressures" Abdul's brother gets killed in the fighting, so Abdul and his three cousins join the insurgency. We'll see. And I still prefer the idea of leaving as soon as possible (Kerry) to staying as long as it takes. If its not working in a year, it may not work at all. It would be great if everything is hunky dory in 12 months, but if not how many years until you call the whole activity a failure?? There is no question that democracy in Iraq will have a tranformational effet on the Mideast, Uh huh. Democracy in Turkey didn't transform Iraq. How is democracy in Iraq going to "transform" Saudi Arabia? This I gotta hear. The key weakness in your argument is where you make the leap of faith that concludes democracy and stability in Iraq are just around the corner (when the escalation in violence and dead indicate the opposite), and the resulting bliss will "transform" the Middle East. I have a hard time imagining what is going to transform Saudi Arabia's billionaire Islamic fundamentalist society into anything acceptable to the world. Much of the Middle East thinks the Saudis are wacko - how are they magically going to be transformed? Elroy