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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: michael97123 who wrote (146941)10/4/2004 9:25:03 AM
From: Keith Feral  Read Replies (5) | Respond to of 281500
 
I don't care of the outcome. I just don't want Kerry to represent the US. Here is a guy that has consistently protested US foreign policy of war. War is not a fun time, but it is a real policy that must be steadfast and serious. Look at the advertisements by Soros. The guy is trying to make more money by selling books as to why America is hated around the world.

I get really pissed off when liberals try to use this ugly American concept. The people that hate us are Islamic fundamentalists that flew 4 planes of US people to their death on 9/11. They declared open war on us. Common sense would suggest that it was time for pre-emptive action against the terrorist on their home soil.

This election is still about the war. I would not hand over the responsbility of this war to a man that threw away his war metals, ones of dubious honor. I think the US had every right to take out Saddam even though he did not have WMD. He was guilty of far greater crimes known as genocide. The terrorists in his country were being encouraged to hate Westerns.

It is against the law in this country to teach hatred and murder. We should take pre-emptive strikes against other countries with specific plans to bring danger to our citizens at home and abroad. The only problem is trying to negotiate deterrence. However, Islam needs to reform itself to discourage people from taking their religious practice of Jihad against Western targets. Otherwise, it seems to me that Islma represents an ongoing security risk for all people. I believe Bush would keep applying pressure to this situation for another 4 years.

This is not about supremacy. It is about survival. Look at what happened when Putin turned a blind eye to the Chechnyan rebels. Weakness and negotiation are not the tools to contain this situation.



To: michael97123 who wrote (146941)10/4/2004 10:49:09 AM
From: stockman_scott  Respond to of 281500
 
Getting some insight on the president's uncomfortable relationship with reality
__________________________

By Steve Chapman
Columnist
The Chicago Tribune
Published October 3, 2004

How many members of the Bush administration does it take to change a light bulb?

None. "There's nothing wrong with that light bulb. It has served us honorably. When you say it's burned out, you're giving encouragement to the forces of darkness. Once we install a light bulb, we never, ever change it. Real men don't need artificial light."

For weeks, Sen. John Kerry has been accusing President Bush of living in a "fantasy world," disconnected from what is happening in Iraq. Thursday's debate was reassuring proof that the incumbent is not impervious to bad news. Bush didn't give the impression of a president who is serenely confident that things are going well. He gave the impression of a guy who has been pole-axed by reality and is stumbling around half-dazed, even as he insists he's fine.

Whatever his own understanding of the dire situation, Bush doesn't want anyone else to recognize it. His strategy for succeeding in Iraq is to pretend we are succeeding, regardless of any information to the contrary.

In the debate, he spent less time disputing Kerry's evidence than faulting him for speaking the unspeakable. "I don't see how you can lead this country to succeed in Iraq if you say wrong war, wrong time, wrong place. What message does that send our troops? What message does that send to our allies? What message does that send the Iraqis?"

Hmm. Does he think our allies would be surprised to hear the war was a mistake? Does he think Iraqis are all under the impression that the country is stable, prosperous and secure? Does he think it has never occurred to our soldiers, as they dodge mortar shells or pluck shrapnel out of their flesh, that this may not be the best idea their commander in chief ever had?

To say a candidate shouldn't criticize the decisions made in this war is like saying a football coach shouldn't make adjustments in strategy during the course of a game, lest his team be reduced to sobbing despair. If a team is getting outplayed, it does no good to tell the players to ignore the scoreboard and keep doing the same thing.

The president, however, is more obsessed with messages than Western Union.

"You cannot lead if you send mixed messages," he declared Thursday. "There was no doubt in my mind" about the need to remove Saddam Hussein, he said, as though being certain were just as good as being right.

One of the mixed messages Bush detected from Kerry was the senator's vote last year against an $87 billion appropriation that included money for body armor for U.S. troops. It was the vote that inspired Kerry's immortal line, "I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it."

But that vote took place in October 2003--seven months after the war in Iraq began. The only reason the administration needed to buy body armor for our troops after the invasion was that it didn't buy it in sufficient quantities before the invasion.

Why not?

Because the administration assumed postwar Iraq would be no more turbulent than Bingo Night at the retirement home. Kerry may be faulted for voting against the funding, but his decision didn't cost American lives. Bush's lapse did.

Whatever the unfortunate aftermath, the president thinks he should be judged by his intentions. But wholesome motives are not enough--as conservatives have often noted in other contexts.

Back in the 1970s, there was a book about the failures of liberal social policy in New York City, titled "The Cost of Good Intentions." Liberals didn't go wrong in New York because they dearly wanted to promote dependency, foster crime, drive out businesses and bring on municipal bankruptcy--but in the end, their approach had those effects, and the only way to get different results was to adopt different policies.

It was mistakes like those that led conservatives to notice what they called "the law of unintended consequences." Bush may have intended the war in Iraq to eliminate weapons of mass destruction, prevent terrorism and implant democracy, but so far it has not lived up to his billing. On top of that, the war has had lots of nasty consequences he didn't anticipate. Americans and Iraqis are now paying the cost of Bush's good intentions.

When he extolled the need for positive messages, the president sounded like he was forcing himself to believe what Jiminy Cricket sang in "Pinocchio": "When you wish upon a star, makes no difference who you are. Anything your heart desires will come to you." That's true, but only in fairy tales.

----------

Copyright © 2004, Chicago Tribune

chicagotribune.com



To: michael97123 who wrote (146941)10/4/2004 11:12:26 AM
From: stockman_scott  Respond to of 281500
 
"There undoubtedly were many reasons for Mr. Bush's lackluster effort. But I think there was one factor, above all, that undermined the president in last week's debate, and will continue to plague him throughout the campaign. And that was his problematic relationship with reality."

_________________________

Bush and Reality
By BOB HERBERT
OP-ED COLUMNIST
THE NEW YORK TIMES
October 4, 2004

For 90 minutes, at least, democracy seemed to be working. The two men in dark suits took their places at the lecterns. The analysts, the handlers, the spinmeisters and the hangers-on had been cleared out of the way. With no commercial interruptions, more than 60 million Americans got a rare, unedited, close-up look at the candidates in one of the most important presidential elections in the nation's history.

John Kerry got the better of President Bush in last Thursday's debate in Coral Gables, Fla. The president seemed listless, defensive and not particularly well prepared. His facial expressions and body language at times were odd. Some of his strongest supporters were dismayed by his performance, and polls are showing they had reason to be concerned.

There undoubtedly were many reasons for Mr. Bush's lackluster effort. But I think there was one factor, above all, that undermined the president in last week's debate, and will continue to plague him throughout the campaign. And that was his problematic relationship with reality.

Mr. Bush is a man who will frequently tell you - and may even believe - that up is down, or square is round, when logic and all the available evidence say otherwise. During the debate, this was most clearly displayed when, in response to a question about the war in Iraq, Mr. Bush told the moderator, Jim Lehrer, "The enemy attacked us, Jim, and I have a solemn duty to protect the American people, to do everything I can to protect us."

Moments later Senator Kerry clarified, for the audience and the president, just who had attacked the United States. "Saddam Hussein didn't attack us," said Mr. Kerry. "Osama bin Laden attacked us. Al Qaeda attacked us."

Given a chance to respond, Mr. Bush flashed an unappreciative look at Senator Kerry and said, "Of course I know Osama bin Laden attacked us - I know that."

With no weapons of mass destruction to exhibit, and no link between Saddam and Al Qaeda, Mr. Bush has nevertheless tried to portray the war in Iraq as not only the right thing to do but as largely successful. The increasing violence and chaos suggest otherwise. Even as the presidential debate was being conducted, details were coming in about car bombings earlier in the day in Baghdad that killed dozens of Iraqis, including at least 34 children.

The children were not in school because the turmoil had prevented the opening of schools.

The political problem for Mr. Bush is that while he is offering a rosy picture of events in Iraq - perhaps because he believes it, or because he wants to bolster American morale - voters are increasingly seeing the bitter, tragic reality of those events. A president can stay out of step with reality only so long. Eventually there's a political price to pay. Lyndon Johnson's deceit with regard to Vietnam, for example, has never been forgiven.

The president likes to tell us that "freedom is winning" in Iraq, that democracy is on the march. But Americans are coming to realize that Iraq is, in fact, a country in agony, beset by bombings, firefights, kidnappings, beheadings and myriad other forms of mayhem. The president may think that freedom is winning, but television viewers in the U.S. could see images over the weekend of distraught Iraqis pulling the bodies of small children from smoking rubble - a tragic but perfect metaphor for a policy in ruins.

Mr. Bush got his big bounce in the public opinion polls from the Swift boat nonsense and the mocking, nonstop criticism of Senator Kerry at the Republican National Convention. Those were distractions from the real world. But reality cannot be kept at bay indefinitely. Readers of The Washington Post got a disturbing dose of it yesterday from a front-page article about the strain being put on the overloaded systems of veterans' disability benefits and health care by the thousands of American troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan with physical injuries and mental health problems.

The article noted that "President Bush's budget for 2005 calls for cutting the Department of Veterans Affairs staff that handles benefits claims."

A staff sergeant who was paralyzed in a mortar attack near Baghdad was quoted as saying: "I love the military; that was my life. But I don't believe they're taking care of me now."

The real world is President Bush's Achilles' heel. He can't keep his distance from it forever.

nytimes.com



To: michael97123 who wrote (146941)10/4/2004 1:24:26 PM
From: Don Hurst  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Man, who cares.