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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Lane3 who wrote (77161)10/13/2004 1:53:53 PM
From: Ilaine  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793781
 
>>I would have thought that me-first and patriotism were largely at odds.

Do you really? Or are you just saying that because you don't like the idea that the people in the military actually care who is leading the country, and where he is leading it to?

To use an extreme example -- if Germans did not want to fight for Hitler, would you call them unpatriotic?

Tommy

I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

Rudyard Kipling



To: Lane3 who wrote (77161)10/13/2004 2:01:53 PM
From: SBHX  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793781
 
kholt,

If you believe that under Kerry, the best scenario is a vietnam style exodus from Iraq, as even the most patriotic soldier is bound to suspect, then it becomes very clear.

Then under such a CIC, each soldier would have to think real hard whether he wants to be the last soldier to die for a 'mistake' that the new CIC has said several times.

Point is, the thought of being on the last helicopter to leave Baghdad is not a very appealing ideal for people to fight for.

Fact is, scenarios of whether America's role in Iraq ends up like Japan or Vietnam or perhaps S. Korea are all within the realm of possibility, and the only way to choose for whichever scenario you want to unfold has to be done on Nov 2nd.



To: Lane3 who wrote (77161)10/13/2004 2:20:57 PM
From: unclewest  Respond to of 793781
 
I've always thought that jumping into one's car after an attack and contributing to the gridlock leaving military and emergency services high and dry was unpatriotic.

Every school, every public building and every city in America now has an evacuation plan.

Are they all unpatriotic too?
Or does unpatriotic just apply to those willing to make plans to defend themselves?