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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ilaine who wrote (77427)	10/14/2004 2:39:42 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 793759

But what we were talking about was whether the average American will be more likely or less likely to enlist in the military if John Kerry gets elected, and why. Well, there's the first problem. That's sure not what I was talking about. UW made that point, no one contradicted him, and that was that, best I could tell. What triggered the flurry of activity was my aside that quitting the military over the unfavorable change in CIC wasn't very patriotic. Since I was challenged vigorously for making it, it stands to reason that the patriotism of that act is we were talking about, although we took lots of trips down the garden path, as so typically happens. I stand by that assertion. If someone I knew who was making the military his career opted out in time of war on account of the change in CIC, when I saw him I would welcome him home but most definitely would not pat him on the back comending him for his patriotic act of opting out. Nothing patriotic about it. That seems intuitively obvious to me and nothing anyone has posted has shown me the error of my thinking. I recognize that you SAY you think that saying "not patriotic" is not the same thing as saying "unpatriotic," but for the life of me I can't see how. Pat Tillman was patriotic. Whoever outed Valerie Plame was unpatriotic. The vast majority of people just show up, oblivious to patriotism beyond chearing for the Americans during the Olympics. Call it apatriotic if you like, or simply "not applicable." I don't think I am the only one who thinks that what you are really saying is that you and your friends think it's the obligation of "flag wavers" to enlist in whatever war John Kerry thinks is a good idea, just because he's the President. Then you have plenty of company in being mistaken. I posted a bit about why people might enlist. They enlist or not for whatever reason is meaningful to them. It's a free country and it's their decision. If and when we face an existential war, then we're all obliged to "enlist." Short of that, it's personal choice. It's my understanding, probably from previous discussion on this thread, that currently the bulk of enlistees are Southern country boys and the "urban" demographic. But that's a matter or practice, not obligation. What I think about the "flag wavers" is that, since they are at least on speaking terms with the notion of patriotism, they would view patriotism as I do--defending the foundations of our country when they are threatened regardless of the personal sacrifice. I was surprised that that's apparently not the case. it's THEIR (flag wavers) patriotic duty to get their asses shot off in order to protect your cosmopolitan enclave. The notion that some strapping, red-state twenty-something with his life ahead of him would feel obliged to "get his ass shot off" to protect my baggy old self is obscene. I would much rather lose my life than have him do that. And if the "flag wavers" have other ideas, just call them names. I didn't intend "flag waver" as a pejorative, merely an identification of a cultural group. I think the demographers call it "God and guns" but I'm not certain. In any event, you read an awful lot into what I said.