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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Michael Watkins who wrote (149195)10/26/2004 7:14:49 PM
From: TimF  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 281500
 
It appears there was a search but perhaps not an exhaustive one.

I'm not sure eactly why this is an issue in the presidential campaign. How you search a weapons dump or compound isn't a decision made by the president.

--------------------

YET ANOTHER SERVICEMAN REFUTES THE TIMES ACCOUNT [10/26 05:23 PM]

From yet another Kerry Spot reader with a ".mil" e-mail address:

You are correct in your bottom line conclusion. Here is a second follow up.

I was serving as a [identifying information removed by the Kerry Spot] staff member during the time in question. The Commander on the site had complete real time intelligence on what to expect and possibly find at the Al-QaQaa depot. The ordinance in question was not found when teams were sent in to inspect and secure the area. When this information was relayed, Operational plans were adjusted and the unit moved forward. Had the ordinance in question been discovered, a security team would have been left in place.

THAT HMX? NEVER USED AGAINST COALITION TROOPS, APPARENTLY [10/26 05:14 PM]

N.Z. Bear puts the spotlight on a little-noticed detail of this story:

Other Pentagon officials, also speaking on condition of anonymity, suggested that the explosives could have been hidden elsewhere before the war. They also stressed that there is no evidence HMX or RDX have been used against coalition forces in Iraq.

And he asks these key questions: "How plausible is it that eighteen months after these explosives were allegedly looted by terrorists now locked in a life-and-death struggle with Iraqi and U.S. forces, none of the 380 tons of explosives have been used? If terrorist groups did indeed loot it, and they have it, what could they possibly be saving it for?"
MORE FROM A KERRY SPOT READER WHO WAS THERE [10/26 05:07 PM]

More from a Kerry Spot reader with a ".mil" e-mail address, stating he was among the soldiers who secured Al QaQaa on April 10th with the 101st:

I can tell you what happened at my squad level. When we arrived there, humvees with Mark-19's and other mounted weapons immediately secured the parameter with appropriate manpower backup. On the foot level we broke up into squads and went building to building and cleared them; mind you, we couldn't do them all. But we found what had been typical finds, caches of AK-47's, artillery rounds and bullets. There was absolutely no talk of a big find, and what I could sense no worries of anything that should have been there. Of course, we were still worried about the possibilities of chemical weapons but they never panned out.

I am a little perturbed at the gross mischaracterization of what went on there. From what I remember of the NBC crew, they did not go out with us, and they may have in fact been asked to not to go on the search with us, due to the dangers that may have possibily come up. Now this part is my opinion, but don't you think that if they had gone out with us they would have video?

Thanks to this guy for what he did, and sharing what he could.

You read words like this, from a guy who has put it on the line for his country, and wonder who heck thinks they have the right as a Monday Morning Quarterback to tell guys like him they botched the job.
MIKLASZEWSKI'S NEW REPORT [10/26 03:56 PM]

Marshall says Miklaszewski's report from last night is "no longer operative" based on the Pentagon correspondent's recent comments on MSNBC. I'd say that is an overstatement. To use one of Kerry's favorite words, let's say Miklaszewski's account is more nuanced.

Following up on that story from last night, military officials tell NBC News that on April 10, 2003, when the Second Brigade of the 101st Airborne entered the Al QaQaa weapons facility, south of Baghdad, that those troops were actually on their way to Baghdad, that they were not actively involved in the search for any weapons, including the high explosives, HMX and RDX. The troops did observe stock piles of conventional weapons but no HMX or RDX. And because the Al Qaqaa facility is so huge, it's not clear that those troops from the 101st were actually anywhere near the bunkers that reportedly contained the HMX and RDX. Three months earlier, during an inspection of the Al Qaqaa compound, the International Atomic Energy Agency secured and sealed 350 metric tons of HMX and RDX. Then in March, shortly before the war began, the I.A.E.A. conducted another inspection and found that the HMX stockpile was still intact and still under seal. But inspectors were unable to inspect the RDX stockpile and could not verify that the RDX was still at the compound.

Pentagon officials say elements of the 101st Airborne did conduct a thorough search of several facilities around the Al QaQaa compound for several weeks during the month of April in search of WMD. They found no WMD. And Pentagon officials say it's not clear at that time whether those other elements of the 101st actually searched the Al QaQaa compound.

Now, Pentagon officials say U.S. troops and members of the Iraq Survey Group did arrive at the Al QaQaa compound on May 27. And when they did, they found no HMX or RDX or any other weapons under seal at the time. Now, the Iraqi government is officially said that the high explosives were stolen by looters. Pentagon officials claim it's possible — they're not sure, they say, but it's possible that Saddam Hussein himself ordered that these high explosives be removed and hidden before the war. What is clear is that the 350 metric tons of high explosives are still missing, and that the U.S. or Iraqi governments or international inspectors, for that matter, cannot say with any certainty where they are today.

I have a question about that first comment, that "it's not clear that those troops from the 101st were actually anywhere near the bunkers that reportedly contained the HMX and RDX."

A gentleman sending me e-mail from a ".mil" address writes:

But I was there at Al QaQaa on April 10th with the 101st, I can rest assure you that [NBC producer interviewed on MSNBC earlier today] Lai Ling Jew is lying about it, she seems to be expressing a convenient contrary opinion of the time. The very first thing we do when we move into an area is clear it of any enemy combatants, including going inside warehouses full of ordinance, which we did immediately when we reached there.

nationalreview.com



To: Michael Watkins who wrote (149195)10/26/2004 7:19:29 PM
From: Ish  Respond to of 281500
 
The guys form the 101 say they were gone. They were there, you weren't.



To: Michael Watkins who wrote (149195)10/26/2004 8:03:04 PM
From: Win Smith  Respond to of 281500
 
The true believers always have endless accounts from the warblogosphere to buttress their faith. On the conventional reality front, there was this account from MSNBC:

Three-week window
U.S. defense officials said Tuesday that the materials could have vanished during a period of about three weeks, between March 15, 2003, when inspectors for the IAEA confirmed that at least some of the materials were still stored under IAEA seal at Al-Qaqaa, and April 4, when U.S. troops arrived.

On March 15, said Melissa Fleming, a spokeswoman for the IAEA, “the seals on the doors on the bunkers were checked at many of the bunkers to see if they were still there and hadn’t been tampered with, and that was the case.”

The war in Iraq began March 20. Army officials told NBC News on condition of anonymity that troops from the Army’s 3rd Infantry did not arrive at Al-Qaqaa until April 4, finding “looters everywhere” carrying what they could out on their backs.

The troops searched bunkers and found conventional weapons but no high explosives, the officials said. Six days later, the 101st Airborne Division arrived. Neither group was specifically searching for HMX or RDX, and the complex is so large — with more than 1,000 buildings — that it is not clear that the troops even saw the bunkers that might have held the explosives.

The Iraq Survey Group discovered that the stockpiles of HMX and RDX were missing on May 27, seven weeks after the last visit by U.S. troops.

U.S. defense officials contended that the Iraqis were dispersing many of their weapons before the war, but they had no direct intelligence to prove it. These officials stressed that, in any event, there was no evidence that the missing HMX or RDX had been used against coalition forces in Iraq.
msnbc.msn.com

Of course, given the history of "evidence", direct or otherwise, in the pre-war propaganda campaign, not having any evidence on this particular issue might seem meaningful in a way not to the true believers' liking. Evidence never counts much in matters of faith, though, so it doesn't much matter.