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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Keith Feral who wrote (149287)	10/27/2004 12:44:41 PM
From: Sun Tzu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

As with Michael, you let your emotions get in the way of your judgment. >> The jihadists or islamofascists kidnap innocent civilians from their own country... What do you call the Guantanamo detainees? Certainly they did not go there on their own accord. For the most parts they have not been charged with anything so it is unclear what guilt, if any, beyond being at the wrong place at the wrong time they have...and what do call civilian casualties of war? "unfortunate but ultimately necessary and justifiable casualties of war?" I have a feeling this is a fairly close logic to what they use for their beheadings. Let's face it, they would much rather have Rummy's head than some poor contractor, but in the absence of means to do so, they have to do with what they've got. >> Can you imagine the public reaction in this country if Bush offered reward money to Christians or Jews to commit murder against anyone of Middle Eastern descent. Unthinkable!! Really?! Is it really so unthinkable to you? The reaction after 9/11 and the too eager public to surrender everything America should be proud of for a promise of security has made me think otherwise. More to the point, if you convinced the public that the middle easterners were all (or most) guilty and the enemy and offered money for anyone handing over "sleeper" operatives, you would not see much fuss about it here. Post 9/11 behavior has convinced me of this. What you are missing is the disconnect that exists between how they perceive you and how you see yourself. They have more or less the same view of you as you have of them.

To: Keith Feral who wrote (149287)	10/27/2004 3:03:02 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Keith, you wrote; "I think that is an absurd comparisons... The jihadists or islamofascists kidnap innocent civilians from their own country and behead them if impossible demands are not met. Our soldiers are imprisoned if they punish the prisoners." I don't think the point was that there is a precise parallel in terms of methods, but rather that there is a strong parallel in terms of embracing the use of force to impose our ideological view of "good" lifestyles on others, embracing the view that the ends justify the means and accepting that innocent lives must be sacrificed to secure the ends. I don't think you can examine our strategies in Iraq without coming to the conclusion that those similarities are present. Or maybe you can find some other way to explain our policy which approves firing missiles into crowds of civilians in order to kill one or more terrorists who "may" be present? Or using force to give them the "freedom that is a 'god-given' right of all people?"