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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: redfish who wrote (149334)	10/27/2004 1:29:14 PM
From: redfish	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

I ask because some people seem to believe that we are involved in a titanic clash of civilizations with people variously described as jihadists, islamic fundamentalists, etc. I look around for evidence of this enormous struggle and I don't see any. We have been subject to periodic terrorist attacks, most of which have not been terribly costly, the latest of which was enormously costly. In addition we are involved in a war in an islamic nation where we have basically kicked the living #### out of them with one hand tied behind our back. Try as I might, I can't see this enormous threat to our nation of almost 300,000,000 people that others seem to accept as a matter of faith. Before I buy into this notion of a clash of civilizations, I would like more specific information on the stakes involved. Is there a possibility the United States will be overcome by the military might of the jihadists? Might the jihadists arrest me and put me in a concentration camp? Will they take our women and force them into sexual slavery? What exactly is the risk here?

To: redfish who wrote (149334)	10/27/2004 1:50:06 PM
From: carranza2	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

Do you anticipate that they will conquer the U.S.? Enslave us? Force us to convert to Islam? If so, how do you expect them to overcome our arsenal of over 10,000 nuclear weapons, in addition to our conventional weapons? Good question. Very good question. Assume that the Jihadists, after a long struggle, establish a Caliphate over the Mid East and South Asia. Imagine that countries such as Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Kuwait, the Emirates, Yemen and Qatar are charter members. Imagine that Nigeria and Brunei are deeply sympathetic if not outright members. Now, imagine the repercussions, a few of which are: 1.- Reliable sources of oil do not exist; 2.- Pakistan provides nuclear weapons; 3.- Terror against the US and the West increases exponentially; 4.- Our economies tank, making the Great Depression look like a walk in the park; 5.- We are in a permanent war-footing with a huge amount of our resources devoted to military expenditures; 6.- Do I really need to go any further? These, in my view, are the dangers, and the reasons why the Jihadists need to be defeated now. They need to get disabused of the notion that they can defeat us like they think they defeated another superpower in Afghanistan. You might recall that I posted a very derogatory post about Brezinzki a few days ago. He discounted the impact of Islamisn on world politics during the cold war era when he said that "What was more important in the world view of history? A few stirred up Muslims or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the Cold War?" personal.psu.edu A few stirred up Muslims, indeed.