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Politics : Is Secession Doable? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Road Walker who wrote (51)11/4/2004 7:32:28 AM
From: redfish  Respond to of 1968
 
Yeah a lot of folks are very sad right now and don't know what to do ... when they come around and realize that we have to continue to fight we can get the ball rolling again.



To: Road Walker who wrote (51)11/4/2004 8:49:02 AM
From: Amy J  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1968
 
John, RE: "Maybe a first step would be ballot initiatives in the selected states. But to do that, you would first have to build an organization to collect signatures and get some publicity, and of course money."

My biggest issues are women's rights - we need a country that has an ability to elect women into top government posts in equal numbers. I'm absolutely sick and tired of a country that is so backwards they think women's rights only boils down to abortion, which is nan old issue the prior generation worked on. Let's get to the next level here. Let's have a government that mandates fair and equal representation by government. Specifically, mandate 50% men and 50% women must be in Congress and let's mandate that people in their teens, twenties and thirties as well as people in their 70s and 80s need to be also included as members of this Congress as well (we have poor representation of the different ages), so there is absolutely no excuse for inequal government representation. Write Equality into the constitution - and practise it within Congress where it really matters. Make it illegal for Congress to have a composition that doesn't reflect the population. Make inequality of representation illegal.

I might be able to cough up $50k to an organization that would peacefully achieve this equality within no more than one decade, assuming it's legal. My patience is getting thin on this issue, look no further than Canada to see how they have an ability to elect a woman as their Prime Minister, when our country hasn't even had one.

Regards,
Amy J



To: Road Walker who wrote (51)11/4/2004 11:37:30 AM
From: SilentZ  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1968
 
>Maybe a first step would be ballot initiatives in the selected states. But to do that, you would first have to build an organization to collect signatures and get some publicity, and of course money.

Just like with anything else.

>You might also try to benchmark any other successful historical secessions. Are there any?

I don't know.

>Actually, the effort, even if it failed miserably (probable) might make a serious political statement that could moderate our current 'government gone neo'. Depending on how many folks you could get to go along.

I agree.

Good to have you here, John.

-Z



To: Road Walker who wrote (51)11/4/2004 2:48:20 PM
From: tejek  Respond to of 1968
 
Some Bush Supporters Say They Anticipate a 'Revolution'

By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK

Published: November 4, 2004

ARLINGTON, Va., Nov. 3 - Exulting in their electoral victories, President Bush's conservative supporters immediately turned to staking out mandates for an ambitious agenda of long-cherished goals, including privatizing Social Security, banning same-sex marriage, remaking the Supreme Court and overturning the court's decisions in support of abortion rights.

"Now comes the revolution,"
Richard Viguerie, the dean of conservative direct mail, told about a dozen fellow movement stalwarts gathered around a television here, tallying up their Senate seats in the earliest hours of the morning. "If you don't implement a conservative agenda now, when do you?"

By midday, however, fights over the spoils had already begun, as conservatives debated the electorate's verdict on the war in Iraq, the Bush administration's spending and the administration's hearty embrace of traditionalist social causes.

Conservative Christians, both Protestant and Catholic, were first in line to stake their claims, citing polls showing that a plurality of Bush supporters named "moral values" as the most important issue and arguing that a drive to ban same-sex marriage boosted turnout in Ohio.

"Make no mistake - conservative Christians and 'values voters' won this election for George W. Bush and Republicans in Congress," Mr. Viguerie wrote in a memorandum sent to other prominent conservatives. "It's crucial that the Republican leadership not forget this - as much as some will try," he said, underlining the final clause.

"Liberals, many in the media and inside the Republican Party are urging the president to 'unite' the country by discarding the allies that earned him another four years," Mr. Viguerie continued. "They're urging him to discard us conservative Catholics and Protestants, people for whom moral values are the most important issue.''

Dr. James C. Dobson, the founder of Focus on the Family and an influential evangelical Protestant, said he had issued a warning to a "White House operative" who called yesterday morning to thank him for his help.

Dr. Dobson said he told the caller that many Christians believed the country "on the verge of self-destruction" as it abandoned traditional family roles. He argued that "through prayer and the involvement of millions of evangelicals, and mainline Protestants and Catholics, God has given us a reprieve."

"But I believe it is a short reprieve," he continued, adding that conservatives now had four years to pass an amendment banning same-sex marriage, to stop abortion and embryonic stem-cell research, and most of all to remake the Supreme Court. "I believe that the Bush administration now needs to be more aggressive in pursuing those values, and if they don't do it I believe they will pay a price in four years," he said.

Dr. Dobson and several other Christian conservatives said they believed the expanded Republican majority in the Senate and the defeat of the Senate Democratic leader, Tom Daschle, put them in striking distance of both amending the constitution to ban same-sex marriage and approving the appointment of enough conservative Supreme Court justices to overturn Roe v. Wade and other abortion rights cases.

"I think it is a real possibility," said Senator Sam Brownback, Republican of Kansas, a champion of social conservative causes. In the meantime, he said, he also hoped to pass other measures conservatives had campaigned for this year, including an "Unborn Child Pain Awareness Act" requiring some women seeking abortions to be offered anesthesia for their fetuses.

Austin Ruse, president of the conservative Catholic Culture of Life Foundation, suggested that if Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist steps down, Mr. Bush could begin to repay his social conservative backers by naming Justice Antonin Scalia to replace him. "We'd love to see Scalia in that spot, and I think we have earned it," Mr. Ruse said.

The strongest argument that Christian conservatives played a decisive role in the election came in Ohio, where a ballot measure to ban same-sex marriage passed by an overwhelming margin. Conservatives said the proposal increased conservative turnout and helped Mr. Bush win a narrow, pivotal victory.

Continued................

nytimes.com