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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: LindyBill who wrote (84394)	11/6/2004 12:29:20 PM
From: LindyBill	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 793843

ATLANTIC BLOG - Europe and America Bronwen Maddox of the Times of London has a piece in the Washington Post on Europe's reactions to Bush re-election. I emphasize the plural: there have been different reactions in different places. It is a frequent misperception among many in the United States, I have found, that the whole of Europe (apart from Blair) hates Bush. In fact, the Iraq war split Europe deeply. Maddox makes a point that needs constant repeating, because whatever the hostility to Bush in much of Europe, the clash between Europe and America is hardly about Bush. Hubert Vedrine, France's former Socialist foreign minister, said the result showed that "there is a major and lasting lack of understanding between the American people and the rest of the world." . . . In the Labor Party, the war has stirred up a barely dormant hostility to the United States. Ever since Vietnam, it has been easy to raise a cheer at the party's annual conference with a dig at the Americans. . . . The attitudes of European countries will be flushed out into the open within weeks. U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell has summoned an international conference for Nov. 22 to talk about rebuilding Iraq. It is unlikely, to put it mildly, that France and Germany will take a significant part. The next showdown with Iran is a few days afterwards, when the Board of Governors of the International Atomic Energy Agency will meet in Vienna to decide if Iran has done enough to allay fears about its nuclear research. The United States, which wants Iran referred to the United Nations Security Council at that meeting, has argued that the attempt by Britain, France and Germany to strike a deal is likely to fail. Finally, there is the Middle East, one of Blair's central passions in foreign policy. He told his party's annual conference in September that once the U.S. elections were over, he would tell Washington it was time for another attempt to advance the peace process. But the European keenness for talking about final status solutions is a long way from the cool reserve of the U.S. position. These points of difference were there already. The election does nothing to make matters any worse. The European left will always abhore America. They protested throughout the Cold War. They were at best snarky about Clinton. Get used to it. Among serious Europeans, there are issues of conflicting and common interests to be sorted out. So put aside the delusion that it is all about Bush and get to work. atlanticblog.com

To: LindyBill who wrote (84394)	11/6/2004 12:39:48 PM
From: Ilaine	Respond to of 793843

I think Red Staters should understand that a Blue Stater, if you don't believe abortion should be legal until the child is born, you're a religious nut. And if you don't believe that homosexuals should be able to not only marry, but force churches to marry them in religious ceremonies or lose their tax breaks, you're a religious nut.

To: LindyBill who wrote (84394)	11/6/2004 12:43:32 PM
From: Sully-	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793843

"Exactly how does a single message, a single explanation for a complex event, get framed and spread so quickly?" Here's what I don't get. They spin this alternate version of reality the day after the election like none of us were around paying attention before it. Hello! We were all here! When was "moral values" & "fundamentalist Christian religion, and even more specifically, antipathy toward gay people" a serious hot button issue before the election? It was the WOT, national security & Iraq first & foremost, then the economy. And like Ann pointed out, "moral values" meant a lot of different things to a lot of different people. For me, it was that Kerry was a proven lying scumbag & Bush could be generally trusted to be a man of his word. It pisses me off that liberals are still falsely framing the issues & revising history to fit their world view.