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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neocon who wrote (151363)	11/10/2004 9:43:57 AM
From: michael97123	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

My note wasnt a criticism of you at all or them for that matter. If we examine the posts here for the past six months, i bet we could find almost word for word identical posts. The only way historians can judge the past is to allow some time to go by. If iraq is a thriving western type nation in 20 years, historians will judge it one way. If iraq is in chaos in 20 years, it will be judged another. My point is that we are where we are. Please note that redfiche is trying to bait us with his "israel is the root of all evil and all the problems in the mideast" mentality. Note that he is now for a nuke war between iran and israel and doesnt see it as a threat. I remember very clearly growing up in a world where some in the US talked of surviving a nuke war in almost strangelovian language. A nuclear exchange of the type that would follow an iranian attack on israel, is something i for one do not want to contemplate. So it is interesting that those like Leon who thinks iran is somehow protecting its national interest by acquiring nukes or from redfiche who thinks millions of casualties is acceptable, both have this anti israel bias and a belief that somehow israel is responsible for bin laden, and all arab hostility toward the US. Some said that the Jews caused WW2 too or at least caused US involvement in that war. It is amazing how little things change. Bundists, Isolationists, paleocons, redfiche and leon all perfect together. Mike

To: Neocon who wrote (151363)	11/10/2004 11:13:03 AM
From: GST	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<illegitimacy> Supreme beings need no external validation. Hitler taught us that. He had the world's most fearsome military, and he had the will to use it unilaterally to shape the world as he saw fit. Supreme military power needs no legitimacy to lay countries to waste. Legitimacy is not an issue for supreme beings. But for most people in the world, this is an issue. It was an issue for us when we, reluctantly, decided that world domination by Germany in Europe and Japan in Asia was intolerable. We fought to free the world from those who would seek to dominate the world with their military power. Now half a century later we have supreme beings amongst us in the USA -- perhaps you yourself are one. But I am not. And I will use my voice to speak against you if you conclude that you are a supreme being. Hitler taught us something else -- supreme beings can be defeated because in the end, people will struggle to be free. You need legitimacy to rule. Power just breeds resistance in the absence of legitimacy. What is at issue for Americans is this: Are we on the side of freedom? And if we are on the side of freedom, what means should we use to fight for freedom. If you are a supreme being, you will destroy freedom. If you are not a supreme being you will build freedom on a solid foundation -- legitimacy.