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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: LindyBill who wrote (85476)	11/10/2004 11:26:02 PM
From: ManyMoose	Respond to of 793912

I liked Cat's music. I wish he would have stuck to it.

To: LindyBill who wrote (85476)	11/10/2004 11:46:47 PM
From: unclewest	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 793912

LB, I spent a coupla hours this afternoon with our local former "Delta Operator". I recall mentioning earlier I served with his dad. This gent is one very sharp dude. After spending a moment locating each others concealed carries and back-ups, we both laughed. A few Starbucks customers were startled initially. I could tell they were happy to see us joking around after the initial encounter. He is quite active in supporting local deployed veterans' families. He has been reaching out and doing this on his own. We spoke some more this evening and I volunteered to join his effort, and will be getting involved starting tomorrow. Several more locals are due to deploy with their reserve units. He knows the families and I have access to some assets he doesn't know about. We should be able to do much good together. The election has been more than interesting. You did a magnificent job. The after-party is over for me. I am motivated to get back to work. War is politics too. I am moving back into a war support mode. I plan to do that two ways. First: support the troops and their families using direct action here where I live. Second: continue to support war refugees in their quest for freedom. I am not leaving you completely...but I hope to be hard to find some days. Thank you for providing a wonderful outlet for concepts and ideas during the election. I salute my buds who have been monitoring this thread. Someone told me that 340 SIers have me bookmarked. That sounds like a lot. I challenge everyone of them to take direct action today to support the deployed troops' families. Go find them and figure out a way to assist. Don't wait for Christmas. Re-electing GWB sent a clear message of support to the troops. A message they got loud and clear. Their families have not yet received the same message. The wives and kids watched Kerry's speeches about the wrong war. They know he was not the only Senator who voted for the $87 billion before he voted against it. They saw M Moore become glorified in the presence of Jimmy Carter. They watched Springsteen's efforts. They saw Babs and the others denigrate the troops. The military kids have been harassed at school. We have to help these military families see that the far left does not represent our views. 53% of the vote makes GWB President for 4 more years. But it will take organized community support across the country to convince the military dependent community that Kerry will never become the come back kid he bragged about today. And that America really does recognize the miltary dependent contribution and hardship. I invite all of you to join the effort to support the military families with deployed love ones serving in the war zones. If you love your freedom, doing nothing is not an option. unclewest

To: LindyBill who wrote (85476)	11/11/2004 2:47:23 AM
From: LindyBill	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 793912

'Groundhog Day' in Iraq By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN I got a brief glimpse of Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's news conference on Monday, as the battle for Falluja began. I couldn't help but rub my eyes for a moment and wonder aloud whether I had been transported back in time to some 20 months ago, when the war for Iraq had just started. Watching CNN, I saw the same Rummy joking with the Pentagon press corps, the same scratchy reports from the front by "embedded reporters,'' the same footage of U.S. generals who briefed the soldiers preparing for battle about how they were liberating Iraq. There was only one difference that no one seemed to want to mention. It wasn't 20 months ago. It was now. And Iraq has still not been fully liberated. In fact, as the fight for Falluja shows, it hasn't even been fully occupied. Taking in this scene I had very mixed feelings: a fervent hope that victory in Falluja will start to tip Iraq in the right direction, and utter scorn at the fact that we are now, once again, fighting a full-scale war in central Iraq, without an ounce of self-reflection by an administration that long ago declared "mission accomplished.'' But don't worry. Rummy has it all under control. He hasn't made any mistakes. Everything is going as planned. The plan was always to fight running street battles in Falluja 20 months after Saddam's fall. So lay off. Shut up. Watch Fox. Wave a flag. Visit a red state. Don't ask how we got into this fix. Shut up. Lay off. Watch Fox. ... Alas, I'm part of that dwindling minority who believe that a decent outcome in Iraq is both hugely important and still possible. But the "déjà vu all over again" battle for Falluja only reminds me that I still have the same questions I had before the Iraq war started. Free advice: until you have answers to the following six questions, don't believe any happy talk coming from the Bush team on Iraq. Question 1 Have we really finished the war in Iraq? And by that I mean, is it safe for Iraqis and reconstruction workers to drive even from the Baghdad airport into town, and for Iraqi politicians to hold campaign rallies and have a national dialogue about their country's future? Question 2 Do we have enough soldiers in Iraq to really provide a minimum level of security? Up to now President Bush has applied what I call the Rumsfeld Doctrine in Iraq: just enough troops to protect ourselves, but not Iraqis, and just enough troops to be blamed for everything that goes wrong in Iraq, but not enough to make things go right. Ah, Friedman, what do you know about troop levels? Actually, not much. Never shot a gun. But I'm not a chef either, and I know a good meal when I eat one. I know chaos when I see it, and my guess is that we are still at least two divisions short in Iraq. Question 3 Can Iraqis agree on constitutional power-sharing? Is there a political entity called Iraq? Or is there just a bunch of disparate tribes and ethnic and religious communities? Is Iraq the way Iraq is because Saddam was the way Saddam was, or was Saddam the way Saddam was because Iraqis are the way they are - congenitally divided? We still don't know the answer to this fundamental question because there has not been enough security for Iraqis to have a real horizontal dialogue. Question 4 If Iraqis are able to make the leap from the despotism of Saddam Hussein to free elections and representative government, can we live with whomever they elect - which will be mostly politicians from Islamist parties? I take a very expansive view of this since it took Europe several hundred years to work out the culture, habits and institutions of constitutional politics. What you are seeing in Iraq today are the necessary first steps. If Iraqis elect Islamist politicians, so be it. But is our president ready for that group shot? Question 5 Can we make a serious effort to achieve a psychological breakthrough with Iraqis and the wider Arab world? U.S. diplomacy in this regard has been pathetic. "It is sad to say this, but after 18 months the U.S. still hasn't convinced Iraqis that it means well,'' said Yitzhak Nakash, the Brandeis University expert on Iraq. "We have never been able to persuade Iraqis that we aren't there for the oil. There still isn't a basis for mutual trust.'' Question 6 Can the Bush team mend fences with Iran, and forge an understanding with Saudi Arabia and Syria to control the flow of Sunni militants into Iraq, so the situation there can be stabilized and the jihadists killed in Falluja are not replaced by a new bunch? This time, let no one claim victory, or defeat, in Iraq until we have the answers to these six questions. Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company