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Politics : Is Secession Doable? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: tejek who wrote (1154)	11/15/2004 3:58:02 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER	Respond to of 1968

Re: I don't agree. There may be similarities but there are some important differences. First of all, America is the spawn of Europe......... First let me recommend you a couple of books worth reading: amazon.com amazon.co.uk amazon.com Actually, Venice too was a Byzantine offspring, as Pr Donald Nichol reminds us of in his monography on the Byzantium-Venice relationship... Keep in mind that ever since 353 (?...not sure) when Emperor Constantine relocated the imperial capital in Constantinople, Roman cities and ports had to pledge allegiance to Constantinople... Hence, for most of the Xth, XIth and XIIth centuries (ie the 900s up to the early 1200s) the Doge of Venice had to pledge allegiance to his LORD the Byzantine Emperor who, in turn, sent him a chrysobull granting Venice several trading privileges... Thus, in its early history, Venice was in the same subservient position to Constantinople as the 13 American colonies were to Britain... The main difference is that Venice gained its independence gradually and smoothly --there was no "Tea Party" whereby Venetian merchants denounced their bondage to Constantinople... What happened instead was a slow decline and weakening of the Byzantine Empire that eventually led it to borrow ever more money (tens of thousands of hyperpyra) from the Venetian treasury. So much so that, by the XVth century, the Byzantine emperor resorted to pawn his crown jewels --including Christ's crown of thorns-- to the Doge of Venice... Re: Byzantine Empire was mostly Muslim with some Eastern Orthodox Christians. Pardon me?! Of course, the Byzantine Empire was Christian Orthodox and didn't deal with Islam until the late VIIth century... Constantinople was a multicultural city with a Jewish quarter, Venetian quarter, Genoan quarter and even a mosque for Muslim traders... Re: At its height, part of Europe was under the thumb of the Byzantine Empire. Well, more accurately, part of the Mediterranean rim was under the yoke of Constantinople --yet that was no longer the case from the XIIth century on, when Venice enjoyed unchallenged supremacy over the East Mediterranean... Actually, the similarities and parallels between Byzantium and present-day Europe are innumerable: for instance, we can even think of WWII as a modern reprise of the Fourth Crusade: the latter ushered in the so-called Latin Empire of Constantinople which lasted from 1204 to 1261 when Greek exiles were strong enough to take back Constantinople... Likewise, WWII ushered in the US supremacy over Europe which lasted from 1945 to... 2002 --exactly the same duration as the Latin Empire of yore: 57 years!!! Indeed, 2002 was the pivotal year when a German chancellor (Schroeder) was re-elected on an anti-US agenda (opposition to the Iraq war...) Finally, both Byzantium and Latin Europe shared the same "ideology", namely, Christianity... The Greeks, however, were "multilateralists" and never --up to the present day-- recognized the preeminence of the Roman patriarch (aka the Pope). Contrariwise, Latin Europeans were unilateralists and claimed that the Roman bishop was entitled to rule over all Christendom --hence the Filioque controversy: Message 19374455 Message 19374462 Gus