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To: Sun Tzu who wrote (13871)	11/18/2004 10:52:00 AM
From: epicure	Respond to of 20773

It will be instructive to watch what happens in Iraq over the next few months- I hope most people realize that all the valuable assets to the Iraqi resistance probably got out of Fallujah long before any bullets started flying- where will they organize next? Will there now be another Falluja somewhere else, or will there be many (I suspect many)? And do we have the troops to deal with many pockets of strong resistance? Probably not. The footage being shown of our soldiers is excellent recruiting material for the Iraqi resistance- in Iraq, and throughout the Arab world. Can we be barbarous enough to win over barbarous individuals who consider themselves to be fighting for God and country (we're just fighting for God and Democracy). Blood mixed with one's own land will almost always win if the enemy is willing to do anything to defeat the invader. Are Americans willing to sacrifice women and children to win in Iraq? Probably not. Are the Iraqis willing to make such sacrifices? probably so. Was this a stupid war to engage in- I think the answer is an obvious "Yes" at this point. US intelligence issue pessimistic report on Fallujah offensive Thu Nov 18, 5:29 AM ET Mideast - AFP WASHINGTON (AFP) - Marine intelligence officials have issued a report warning that any significant withdrawal of troops from the Iraqi city of Fallujah would strengthen the insurgency. The assessment, distributed to senior Marine and Army officers in Iraq (news - web sites), also said that despite the heavy fighting with coalition forces, the insurgents would continue to increase in number, carrying out attacks and fomenting unrest in the area. One officer said the seven-page classified report -- parts of which were provided to Thursday's edition of The New York Times -- was "brutally honest" and appears to contradict the US government's victorious account of the US-led fight against insurgents in Fallujah and other parts of northern Iraq. Although the resistance crumbled in the face of the offensive, the report warned, "the enemy will be able to effectively defeat I MEF's ability to accomplish its primary objectives of developing an effective Iraqi security force and setting the conditions for successful Iraqi elections." The pessimistic analysis was prepared by intelligence officers in the First Marine Expeditionary Force, or I MEF, last weekend as the offensive in Falluja was winding down. Senior military officials in Iraq and Washington disputed the findings of the report, describing it as a subjective judgement of some Marines that did not reflect the views of all intelligence officials and commanders in Iraq. "The assessment of the enemy is a worst-case assessment," Brigadier General John DeFreitas, the senior military intelligence officer in Iraq, said of the Marine report in a telephone interview with The New York Times. The general insisted that there were no plans to withdraw forces from Fallujah. "We have no intention of creating a vacuum and walking away from Fallujah," he told the broadsheet. story.news.yahoo.com.

To: Sun Tzu who wrote (13871)	11/18/2004 11:51:33 AM
From: Chas.	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 20773

Law of the Jungle shall prevail, survival of the fittest....that is the reality of the world stage, that is the way the global game is played......did you just get off the boat "good ship lollypop" or something, get your head out of the Buddhist incense smoke for a minute and look around..... and try to make a distinction between the good guys and the bad guys will you.... North Korea....Bad Iran...bad Iraq...bad Palestine...bad Sudans Muslims...bad I could go on and on and on...... good guys.....USA...Great Britian, Italy, France, Germany, Japan....I could go on and on and on........ however the global game of Economic control and leverage continues...... 75 or 80 years from now it will be a food and medicine war...... no matter how many ways you try to candy coat it or spew your idealistic thoughts the bottom line remains........ My Tribe....your Tribe Mankind has not yet advanced beyond that mindset, it remains bogged down in religion or effort to circumvent religious dogma thru gimmicks like Buddhism....gimme a break.... regards