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Politics : Moderate Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Chas. who wrote (13962)	11/21/2004 10:41:57 PM
From: Michael Watkins	Respond to of 20773

You keep talking about America's freedoms and in the same breath talk about the American "way of survival" boiling down to tribal instinct. Can I assume you believe America's core freedom is to take whatever it wants, from whomever it wants, no matter what the cost (payment in blood or money)?

To: Chas. who wrote (13962)	11/21/2004 11:18:55 PM
From: Yogizuna	Respond to of 20773

>>> you owe.....you are beholding to others for your freedoms..... <<< Seems like you are trying to make a slave out of people, holding them in debt for the questionable past actions of our government/military industrial complex in the affairs of other people around the world. Pathetic. If I have to owe my "freedom", which is becoming less and less each decade by the way, to a corrupt system which constantly interferes in other people's free will, then I declare myself "bankrupt" from your so-called "debt".

To: Chas. who wrote (13962)	11/22/2004 11:03:18 AM
From: Sun Tzu	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20773

I get the impression that you think of yourself as a patriot. I have to wonder a patriot of what nation? There are two Americas, and perhaps there have always been two Americas. There is the America that was founded on belief in justice, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. The one that believes that there are inalienable rights. That all men are created equal. An America that fights slavery and believes in democracy and justice for all. It is a moral entity that believes in tolerance. It is a conservative (in the true meaning of the word) that believes in personal responsibility; it says, give me a level playing field and we let the chips fall where they may. It is also a generous and compassionate entity. Then there is another America. The one that was founded based on greed and built by a bunch of hoodlums and robber barons. An America that would murder native inhabitants and give women and children small pox laden blankets. Then would drive the buffalo towards extinction just to starve the indians and puts a price on their scalp. An America for whom the pursuit of the almighty dollar is next to godliness and goes to Philippines to massacre anyone over 10 just to have access to new markets. The one that thinks nothing of dropping an atomic bomb on civilians, then does it again a few days later just to experiment and observe the different affects of a plutonium bomb versus radium bomb. The two are not reconcilable. Which America are you part of? You keep saying my tribe right or wrong. But which one is your tribe? How do you define being American? Saudis and Palestinians can stick to the kind of tribalism you talk of; they are mostly racially pure. But here you cannot claim some form of genetic make up for your tribalism. Nor is there a king where loyalty to whom can be defined as the allegiance. So what is the mark of an American? Is it just a passport? I think not; An American is anyone who stands loyal and true to the American ideals. But which ideals? Make your choice which America you want to be part of. Sun Tzu