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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Greg or e who wrote (18775)	11/29/2004 9:18:07 PM
From: average joe	Respond to of 28931

Question boldly even the existence of God; because if there be one, He must approve the homage of Reason rather than that of blindfolded Fear. Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President Religions are all alike, founded upon fables and mythologies. Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being of His Father, in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution. James Madison, U.S. President In no instance have the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people. James Madison, U.S. President Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise. James Madison, U.S. President This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it. John Adams, U.S. President

To: Greg or e who wrote (18775)	12/1/2004 2:18:56 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 28931

"The constitution is based on Theistic philosophical principals that were taken to be "self evident"." It was admitted in the Treaty of Tripoli that The US was not founded as a Christian Nation. And certainly, the fact that it is a secular document confirms the obvious. But if we are to entertain your wild assertion that it is based on polytheistic principles, then one wonders just what in the Hell you are talking about? There are as many theistic beliefs as there are Gods. Is tearing the heart out of a young girl and sacrificing her to the Sun God not a theistic principle? "Men have rights and governments have responsibilities to promote justice." Men have the rights that men give to men. It has always been thus. Theism is a Jewish belief, a Muslim belief, a Christian belief, the beliefs of African tribes, of Native Americans, of Hindus, and thousands of others. Do all of these have the same moral principles and show the world how to live out ethical theistic principles? What nonsense! It took thousands of years for men to decide that rights were for the many...rather than the few. It took thousands of years to develop the moral ideas that Governments were responsible to the people. Theistic principles! BAH! "I am trying to speak to the underlying philosophical basis of the two revolutions and you don't want to go there" I have never left there. The Constitution was about We The People. It was about raising the secular above the religious State and about introducing the new secular ideas of human rights and democratic input. It was about escaping the gouging thumbs and the random swords of the Kings and Priests. It was political and religious "principles" that forced the colonies to either reject the old principles of Church and King as virtual slaves...or to fight for the secular ideas of freedom from tyranny and religion. They chose to risk their lives to get FREE of "theistic principles" as you call the principles through the theistic centuries of no religious freedom, no human rights--and no preference of Government for any modern and rational sense of justice.