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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: J. C. Dithers who wrote (90125)	11/30/2004 10:12:20 AM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

"What right does the parent have to foist a belief system off on their child? Especially if it is a belief system contrary to the norm in America, which thus guarantees that their children will be made a spectacle of in front of their peers?" JC, people "foist" their belief systems on their children all the time- and have, since time began- that's how we get baby Christians (as well as all other belief systems). I am sure your "ideas" about foisting a non-popular belief system on children could have been said, just as truly (perhaps more truly, since lives were at stake) about Jews in Europe during several periods of history. It is problematic that you would see foisting the popular religion on children as "better" than foisting other religions. You seem to be thinking that what is "popular" is good for kids. You know, Christianity didn;t start out that way, and I don't think Jesus would approve (he seemed to be a bit of a rabble rousing going against the human tide sort of guy). I hope you don't really mean what you have just said. Perhaps you did not think about what you just said and all the ramifications of your statement?

To: J. C. Dithers who wrote (90125)	11/30/2004 10:57:31 AM
From: Rambi	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

It seems to me that it's atheism that DOESN'T foist a belief system on a child. If a child comes home and asks about this supernatural being other people mention and the parents are not believers, it seems reasonable for parents to explain that some people believe this, but they don't. The parents I know who are atheists merely didn't introduce religion into the home rituals at all. It wasn't an active indoctrination the way Christianity is. I think your example is a poor one; it's extreme, and there are plenty of Christian extremists doing similar things. Certainly there are egotists acting with their own agenda, but I don't see that an atheist raising a child without a faith in God is any more ego-gratification than a Christian pressing his own faith on his children. One of my sons, the extremely logical one, though raised a Lutheran and educated in an Episcopalian private school through 7th grade, decided on his own when he entered high school that he just didn't believe in religion. He is now an admitted atheist. (another answer to how do children become atheists) The last thing I wanted to teach my children was to believe or be something because it is the NORM. And I don't believe my children made spectacles of themselves at all. They are respectful of believers and remain quiet when prayer is foisted upon them. On the contrary, watching an entire football team drop to its knees in the middle of a field after a game while the announcer asks for a moment of silence is real Spectacle.

To: J. C. Dithers who wrote (90125)	12/11/2004 6:18:27 PM
From: Grainne	Respond to of 108807

"Grainne, that it is interesting way to put it, I was one of the atheist children... Just how may I ask does a child become an atheist? This is a little-discussed aspect of our debate. It annoys me greatly to have a father pushing an eight-year-old into court to file a lawsuit against a school. That child would much rather be playing with dolls ... or even singing carols which are pleasing to the ear and which have no religious significance whatsoever to the child. This is strictly an adult issue in which the children are used as pawns. What right does the parent have to foist a belief system off on their child? Especially if it is a belief system contrary to the norm in America, which thus guarantees that their children will be made a spectacle of in front of their peers? Frankly, I see this as a form of selfish ego-gratification on the part of self-absorbed parents." Sorry to have to copy almost your whole post forward, but it's been so long since you wrote it. I think you are talking about the eight-year-old whose father sued in California against her reciting the God part of the pledge of allegiance. He is an atheist; the child is not and doesn't live with him. I think he DOES have the right to his opinion, but the fact that the child goes to church confused the issue. I hope an atheist child's parents will file a similar suit someday, though. Since you asked, I got to be an atheist child because none of the religious stuff I was exposed to made any sense to me, and I rejected it. My own personal feelings are kind of radical on this subject, though. I think that parents do not have the right to brainwash their children with their religious belief systems. I think it is child abuse, frankly. I think children should be taught critical thinking skills and exposed to all the different belief systems in age-appropriate ways. Then I think they should develop their own ideas about religion. When my daughter was a baby I bought a beautiful children's book of prayers from all over the world, all religions, with beautiful illustrations. I used to read it to her a lot, until she lost interest.