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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Grainne who wrote (90596)	12/3/2004 3:09:05 PM
From: Grainne	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

And this just in . . . Russia's Putin Calls U.S. Policy 'Dictatorial' Fri Dec 3,12:03 PM ET By Douglas Busvine NEW DELHI (Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin (news - web sites) accused the United States on Friday of pursuing a dictatorial foreign policy and said mounting violence could derail progress toward bringing peace and democracy to Iraq (news - web sites). Putin also criticized the West for setting double-standards on terrorism, pursuing Islamic fundamentalists in Afghanistan (news - web sites) and Iraq while giving refuge to "terrorists" demanding Chechnya (news - web sites)'s independence from Russia. The Kremlin leader's tough remarks came on a visit to former Cold War ally India, where he and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh issued a joint call for greater cooperation in stabilizing and rebuilding Iraq. Unilateralism increased risks that weapons of mass destruction might fall into the hands of terrorists, and would stoke regional conflicts, Putin said in a hard-hitting speech to an invited audience. "Even if dictatorship is packaged in beautiful pseudo-democratic phraseology, it will not be able to solve systemic problems," Putin said. "It may even make them worse." Putin did not name the United States, but clearly had the administration of President Bush (news - web sites) in mind when he said policies "based on the barrack-room principles of a unipolar world appear to be extremely dangerous." Russia was a vocal opponent of the U.S.-led war to oust Saddam Hussein (news - web sites), but has since joined efforts to rebuild Iraq's war-hit infrastructure. Moscow's assent was key to a recent Paris Club deal to write off most of Iraq's foreign debts. MOUNTING VIOLENCE Putin said he was worried by mounting violence and loss of life linked to operations by U.S.-led coalition forces in Iraq, and said these may disrupt plans to hold elections now scheduled for Jan. 30, 2005. Again the Russian leader was not specific, but he appeared to be referring to the U.S. operation to crush die-hard insurgents in the Iraqi city of Falluja. "This may put a question mark over holding of fair and democratic elections in Iraq early next year," he said. Putin's speech echoed comments he made earlier to an Indian newspaper in which he said the war had turned Iraq into a breeding ground for terrorists. "As had been the case with Afghanistan, Iraq turned into a major hotbed of a terrorist threat, a firing ground and incubator for militants," he told the Hindu newspaper. He rounded on Britain for giving asylum to Akhmed Zakayev and the United States for giving refuge to Ilyas Akhmadov, spokesmen for Chechen separatist leader Aslan Maskhadov. "Providing safe haven and support to terrorists, their accomplices and sponsors actually serves as a justification and, indeed, an encouragement of their crimes," Putin said. Both men deny being terrorists. Maskhadov, regarded in the West as a moderate, led Chechnya to brief de facto independence during the 1990s before Putin ordered Russian troops to retake the turbulent North Caucasus province. Putin, who backed India's bid for a United Nations (news - web sites) Security Council seat, said he had found in India a strong ally against terrorism. "Terrorists benefit from the conflict of civilizations and religions," he told the hand-picked New Delhi audience. "Let it be known that our multi-confessional and multi-ethnic states will not be broken up." news.yahoo.com

To: Grainne who wrote (90596)	12/3/2004 3:14:27 PM
From: ManyMoose	Respond to of 108807

Let us hope they all read the correct translation, huh! Message #90596 from Grainne at 12/3/2004 3:08:44 PM Actually, it is not 72 virgins that Muslims get when they suicide themselves, anyway. It is 72 golden raisins . . . according to an article I read, based on accurate translation. Boy, are they going to be surprised when they get to heaven!

To: Grainne who wrote (90596)	12/3/2004 3:43:21 PM
From: jlallen	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 108807

I beleive that is a very insensitive and offensive set of posts about Muslims you have made.....if I could, I would probably post it over at XXX's bigot thread and nominate you as todays winner.... The 72 virgins thing is far from a genuine traslation even when it is offered with it's literal text. First: The reference is allegorical since in heavenly theology we don't think in terms of one human being 'doing others' as in defiling their sexuality or exploiting them or anything. Second: The analogy is only meant as a spiritual comparison to our sensory rewards on Earth. If you would find sex with a virgin pleasurable, then imagine what your pleasure would be when multiplied 72 times...again not with literal virgin girls who are performing as some sort of sex slave. The Quranic example goes firther to explain that your pleasure in heaven will be never ending. As the allegory goes on to explain that virginity would be instantly restored in all the 72. It is simply an attempt to have believers imagine the extent of their reward in heaven since we are not talking about actual physical phenomenon... that is what we have here in the temporal plain. Sheesh. You probably don't get that it is a parable because it wouldn't serve your PC world view to do that. Finally: The fundamental extremists have corrupted the message of the Quran so that they can justify terrorism... duh!! To generalize your statements to 'Muslims' is an act of bigotry pointed at 2 billion people living on this planet and countless that have gone on before. The terrorists are no more "Muslims" than those who ran the inquisition were "Catholics"..... J.