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To: RealMuLan who wrote (17655)	12/5/2004 1:19:39 AM
From: mishedlo	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116555

Yiwu I posed same question on the FOOL <As I am typing a new thought occurred to me. EDUCATION. It is just too damn expensive in the US. IMO The US does not have a monopoly on brainpower. Chinese people are not stupider than people in the US. What does a 4 year education cost in the US and waht does it cost at the best schools in China. Are China's best schools as good as ours? > From Wendy on the FOOL.... Knowing many Chinese immigrant scientists, as I do, I can assure you that Chinese people are certainly not stupider than people in the U.S.!! The Chinese approach to education is qualitatively different than the U.S., as I have been told by my friends. First, a smaller proportion of the population get a higher education. Selection is highly competitive. Young students are highly motivated to succeed. Chinese society has tested, honored and rewarded scholarship, for many hundreds, if not thousands, of years. The civil service system of mandarins was supplied by students who passed a competitive exam. You can see these mandarins in ancient scroll paintings, in museums. Self-esteem as an important topic in education? Sports? Laughable! Only in America! The Chinese don't fool around with such nonsense. They have 1.5 billion people, and only those who test as the best of the best get into the universities. Even if the Chinese are, statistically, exactly as smart as Americans, they have 5 times the population, so they can take the cut farther out on the bell curve, if their university population is less than 5 times that of the U.S. Does China have an institutionalized affirmative action program, to admit inferior students over superior ones? India does (they set aside educational slots for "untouchables"), but I haven't heard that China does. How does promoting mediocrity help the U.S. compete in the world market? Second, Chinese education focuses the student on the subject, not a broadly based curriculum. Engineers study engineering in depth. They don't study art, history, psychology, etc. Yes, this "limits" them as people, if you care about that. However, they have great knowledge and competence in their subject. Though I agree that cost is an issue in American education, the statistics show that the greater issue is the quality of the education. American high school students test shamefully low on math and science tests, compared with many foreign countries. American-born engineering and science graduates are diminishing, their places filled by more-serious foreign students, at U.S. universities. Wendy

To: RealMuLan who wrote (17655)	12/5/2004 9:10:33 AM
From: BubbaFred	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 116555

The 5,000 yuan / year cost for undergraduate study in "regular university" in China is super cheap. The cost at the top private middel school in Shanghai is 10,000 yuan / year. Perhaps these types of schools can only exist in Shanghai, Beijing, and Guangzhou where there are enough wealthy people. The curricula is rigorous that includes mandatory English, the only mandatory foreign language from middle school level. There are other private schools such as international schools for kids of diplomats and foreigners. The cost of international (in English) middle and high school in Shanghai is 15,000 to 20,000 U$Dollar (yeah, not yuan). The "top" rating is based on how many percent of the schools' students score in national exams which are used for qualification to high schools and universities. The high scorer middle schoolers go to "top" high schools, and high scorers in high scholls are qualified (also get scholarships) to the top universities. Of course the cream of the crop university students get invited to do graduate studies at MIT's and Ivy Leagues of the world. Or, has this changed with the prevailing paranoia? There should be no doubt about the quality of the undergraduate students in China's universities. There are not as many universities in China as there are in the US, including community colleges. So the universities in China get more of the top of the cream high school students. In addition, how about the dropout rate? Funding for research programs in China's universities will come and become larger as China's economy grows. Of course, it impossible to claim make such comparison with schools like the Berkeleys and MIT's. As far as creativity, why bother question it? The unprecedented rapid progress in China's economy and positive influence in the world should and will speak for itself. The environment to nurture creativity is in place and is not being repressed. The environment is the most important aspect, and as more funding become available, there will be more programs that fund research. As you noted, China's research programs will be limited to science and technology, whereas research in social science and psychology will lag. When they start going into these fields, the impact could be worse for others. The primary reason is the foreign languages offered in high schools and when those foreign education will return to China because of better opportunities. As far as flocking to China for university education, that may happen by 2025, and certainly by 2050. It will happen as research funding become more available. In particular when private research fundings will move to where they can get the biggest bang for the buck. If I were a research fund manager, I would be looking for the most effective ways to use the funds and that includes finding places where the talent pool is available at lower cost. Everything goes with the flow of money and wealth creation, so goes prosperity and creativity. What and where is such momentum today and in the foreseeable future?

To: RealMuLan who wrote (17655)	12/5/2004 10:41:24 AM
From: loantech	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 116555

<The college education used to be completely free bet. 1950 and 1985. > Why pay for doctored history books and propaganda excluding the rape and murder of millions of their own citizens. Damn right it was free let's pull the wool over all the sheep like Yiwu!!!!!!!!!!!!

To: RealMuLan who wrote (17655)	12/5/2004 7:42:55 PM
From: Proud Deplorable	Respond to of 116555

"Plenty of younger Chinese college professors can now speak fluent English and write their research paper in English now. Although I know as a fact, many American students have difficulties to understand Indian accent." Dang y'all, Sum Mericans don't git yer ackcent in fact dunt even unnerstand those Nerthern New Engln edumacated folk so how yer figga we gonna figga out how ta order Chineeese buffets? Yeh I know all those smart folk up nerth ar lernin to speak Chineeese cause if'n thay dunt thay gonna remain hillbillies forevre but we differn't down here, our state is redder than Mao Say Tongs ever was. "Personally, I think due to the traditional value of China, many Chinese students do not argue with their teachers" WHHHHA THE FU** YER SERIUS? DANG, YA'LL GIT OUTTA HERE