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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Noel de Leon who wrote (153738)	12/9/2004 11:11:28 AM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Perjury is a serious matter, and he is the one who supported the legislation that made his sexual conduct fair game in the Jones lawsuit. Irangate, even if it were an instance of lying, which, of course, was not proven, was a perfect example of a reason of state mitigating a lie. There is a degree of statecraft which cannot progress without confidentiality and even dissimulation. For example, we need intelligence, and therefore send people to spy under cover. For another, we carry on back channel communications diplomatically when premature disclosure would make negotiations impossible. These are "white lies" or, if somewhat suspect, "grey lies"........

To: Noel de Leon who wrote (153738)	12/9/2004 11:22:49 AM
From: Dan B.	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Re: "What is relevant is that Clinton was finally caught in and punished for a lie which most men would tell when side stepping. It is a sad commentary on a system which claims to be fair." I agree most men would tell Clinton's lie, though perhaps not after being ratted out. Perhaps at that point most men admit the affair and beg forgiveness (if desired). The big problem here is that concern with "fairness" needs to extend to the notion that Honest American Citizens should not be falsely branded as liars before the world, certainly not by an otherwise trusted public servant such as the President. A President just should not do that to Honest American Citizens, and Clinton did it to many many women, by all accounts. Ya just don't treat American Citizens that way, and if you do so as President, you should be removed from office. I'll betcha if Marylyn had told on Kennedy, he would would not have called her a liar even if he thought she couldn't prove it...though I could obviously be wrong. Dan B.

To: Noel de Leon who wrote (153738)	12/9/2004 11:27:26 AM
From: jlallen	Respond to of 281500

that Clinton was finally caught in and punished for a lie which most men would tell when side stepping. It is a sad commentary on a system which claims to be fair. Clinton got off easy. He violated his oath of office...and he was not "most men"...he was the President of the United States and tried to put himself above the law.....You are righrt though...if the system was fair...he'd have done soem time and had to reimburse the US Treasury for all the expense incurred relative to his lies...