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Politics : Bush-The Mastermind behind 9/11? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Don Earl who wrote (9217)	12/11/2004 1:36:11 AM
From: Raymond Duray	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 20039

More on this matter (this is a precise term in physics) later, but let me make a brief comment: Re: Okay, so let's round it off to approximately 250 million pounds for the top 30 stories. If you'll pardon my stubbornness, I still think that's enough to munch up a piece of sheetrock pretty good. You may well be member of the NRA. You may well be an expert of lead travelling at muzzle velocity, but you are a completely clueless fool when it comes to Type-II GWB. Say what? Homey, you are a idiot when you are tawking board. Get a effin' clue. Stubborness is not a virtue when scientific analysis is what is required. Hell, stubbornness is not a virtue when I CLEARLY TOLD YOU WHAT EXPERTS KNOW ABOUT GYPSUM, GWB, AND SHEETROCK!! All I can say is, I hope your mother didn't raise too many more idiots, because you are proof that evolution did not occur in your family.

To: Don Earl who wrote (9217)	12/11/2004 8:04:37 AM
From: sea_urchin	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 20039

Don > What's wrong with that? It covers all the facts. Conforms to conventional implosion theory. And there's no need to reinvent the wheel, or to account for the clandestine introduction of devices the size of a dump truck. At the cost of belaboring the point further, may I humbly suggest that your explanation does not cover all the facts, unless, of course, like the blind men and the elephant, we are each talking about a different perspective of the same thing -- namely a controlled demolition -- but which none of us really understand. wordfocus.com Here is a piece which discusses the "pyroplastic" dust and its formation and which I feel is crucial to the comprehension of what took place. plaguepuppy.net >>Pyroclastic flows can only occur when a dense slurry of fine dust is suspended in air or volcanic gasses and is concentrated in a defined area. The suspension will then act as a separate, denser fluid that remains distinct as it moves through the less dense medium. Because of their density such flows can reach speeds of hundreds of miles an hour and do tremendous damage, especially with the high temperatures seen in volcanic events. For such clouds to have been created in the collapses of the towers a large portion of the concrete and gypsum in the buildings had to be turned almost instantly into dust of a very small particle size, in the <60 micron range. That dust also had to be mixed with air to create the slurry, and the observed flows indicate that a very dense and uniform suspension was created. It is simply impossible to create and disperse this amount of material using only the energy of a gravitational collapse, yet it is seen being ejected from the earliest moments of the collapses. At this point the floors are moving at tens of miles per hour and provide no mechanism for grinding all that concrete into fine dust. In trying to understand what actually happened during the collapse of the World Trade Towers, perhaps the most glaring problem with the "official" models is their inability to explain the enormous dust clouds generated by the collapses. Even early on, when the tops of the buildings had barely started to move, we saw the characteristic jets of fine dust (mixed with larger chunks of debris) being shot out very energetically from the building. During the first few seconds of a gravitational fall nothing is moving very fast, and yet from the outset what appears to be powdered concrete can be seem blowing out to the sides, growing to an immense dust cloud as the collapse progresses. The floors themselves are quite robust. Each one is 39" thick; the top 4" is a poured concrete slab, with interlocking vertical steel trusses (or spandrel members) underneath. This steel would absorb a lot of kinetic energy by crumpling as one floor fell onto another, at most pulverizing a small amount of concrete where the narrow edges of the trusses strike the floor below. And yet we see a very fine dust being blown very energetically out to the sides as if the entire mass of concrete (about 400,000 cubic yards for the whole building) were being converted to dust. Remember too that the tower fell at almost the speed of a gravitational free-fall, meaning that little energy was expended doing anything other than accelerating the floor slabs. Considering the amount of concrete in a single floor (~1 acre x 4") and the chemical bond energy to be overcome in order to reduce it to a fine powder, it appears that a very large energy input would be needed. The only source for this, excluding for now external inputs or explosives, is the gravitational potential energy of the building. Any extraction of this energy for the disaggregation of the concrete would decrease the amount available for conversion to kinetic energy, slowing the speed of the falls. Yet we know that the buildings actually fell in about 9 seconds, only slightly less than an unimpeded free-fall from the same height. This means that very little of the gravitational energy can have gone toward pulverizing the concrete. Even beyond the question of the energy needed, what possible mechanism exists for pulverizing these vast sheets of concrete? Remember that dust begins to appear in quantity in the very earliest stages of the collapses, when nothing is moving fast relative to anything else in the structure. How then is reinforced concrete turned into dust and ejected laterally from the building at high speed?<< Further down the page: >>This huge amount of very fine dust seems to virtually fall in place, much of it within the outlines of the former building. This created a pyroclastic flow, or perhaps more properly a turbidity current: a slurry of dust and air much denser than the air around it, that can accelerate to considerable speeds as it falls. This is the dense cloud that chases the cameraman down the street for several blocks, and can be seen in several of the videos. From what I understand the surrounding area for several blocks radius was covered by several inches of very fine concrete dust, which would seem to account for most of the concrete in the structure. And there seem to have been very few macroscopic chunks of concrete found at the sites, much less the pile of broken but not pulverized floors that one might reasonably expect to find after the dust cleared. << Thus, as far as I am concerned, the dust is not merely an incidental result of an apparent controlled demolition -- it is, in fact, the "smoking gun" that a controlled demolition actually took place. Further, the magnitude and quality of the dust cloud is an indication of the amount of energy which was employed to bring the controlled demolition about.