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Politics : Liberalism: Do You Agree We've Had Enough of It? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: cirrus who wrote (898)12/12/2004 5:32:22 PM
From: lorne  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 224676
 
cirrus. Lots of good points in your last post.

....."Yes. I think Islamic radicals could get hold of a nuclear bomb. Everything is avaialable for a price.

Would they use it? Of course. If a person's reasoning is guided by religious zealotry and a belief that eliminating infidels via a nuclear attack is for the greater glory of Allah, one would be foolish to think otherwise.
".....

With your above comments in mind ( which I agree with ) I don't think the following would be likely to come about.
...."Ironically, if Osama bin Laden obtained a bomb or even two or three I don't think he would use them without first attempting to gain concessions from the United States.".....

...."Osama wants power and glory."....

I disagree, bin laden is a religious nutbar as you have stated. IMO he want's only to please allah and get his reward in paradise... Now sadam on the other hand did want power and glory and would use religion when it suited his purpose. bin laden would live in caves....sadam in many palaces.

....."Can you imagine the titanic shift in thinking that would occur if it were proven that Osama had a bona-fide nuclear device and he appeared on a video tape warning that he would detonate one in a major US city IF the United States did not withdraw from, say Iraq and Saudi Arabia? What then? Shit. Iraqi democracy wouldn't be worth a whole lot then, would it? Would the people of say, Tulsa, San Antonio, Jacksonville, Green Bay or any one of the hundreds of other large and mid sized targets be willing to die for Iraqi democracy? I don't think so.".....

Should the USA or any free world country make deals with filth like bin laden? I say no....to make the slightest concession to these scum would only encourage more...IMO there is only ONE way to deal with radical islam.

I don't think any of the people in any of the cities you mentioned would be willing to die for iraq or any other arab country or muslim country. These radicals don't think as we do, they don't care if they die and it would appear they want to die so they can get their reward in paradise for murder.....fools.

The arab muslim world should be told ...promised...that the next attack on any USA city or interest would cause the vaporization of mecca and any other muslim interest anywhere in the world....bin laden would understand this.

I think the USA should use any and all means to stop radical islam...there should be in place a known response to the world of radical islam....a response known to the entire world and believed by the entire world. NO deals, NO concessions just a promise to the world of radical islam as to what the price of continued aggression by them will bring about.

...."The reason I say we must stop focusing on Armageddon is that it screws up one's thinking. We Americans think that big dangers like a Muslim nuclear device going off in an American city require equally large solutions, often causing us to overlook the thousand mundane things we should be doing to prevent that from happening."....

If radical islam should use a nuclear device or other WMD the thousand of mundane every day things will not mean very much anymore.



To: cirrus who wrote (898)12/12/2004 6:03:19 PM
From: lorne  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 224676
 
cirrus....."As the saying goes, "Take care of the little things and the big stuff take care of itself." As we saw from the Space Shuttle disasters, it's the little things we need to worry about."......

Agreed, take care of the little things....IMO before they become big things. IMO the following was a little thing that went unnoticed and now it is a big thing that will not take care of itself....how much damage has been done if any?

POLITICAL CORRECTNESS
A Seat at the Table: Islam Makes Inroads in Education

By David Brody
Congressional Correspondent
cbn.com

CBN.com – WASHINGTON -- If you look closely, what is inside your child's textbooks may shock you. They are full of evolution theories, and many liberal historians are rewriting American history as well. But there is even more. How Islam is portrayed in today's textbooks is a subject of concern also.
The familiar images of Islam include praying at Mecca, and the prophet Muhammad, a man Muslims say is the messenger of God. But this is not the whole story.

When all is said and done, the story of Islam is being told and taught to our nation's school kids in their textbooks. But are they getting the whole story, or just part of it?

Since the early 1990's, teaching Islam to kids has taken on a new dimension. As our society moved into the era of political correctness where it became taboo to offend any one group, many educational analysts say that the controversial nature of Islam started to not only be downplayed, but to be totally ignored.

One of the leading critics is the American Textbook Council, which came out with a scathing report a year ago. It is called "Islam in the Textbooks," and in it are numerous examples of how Muslim scholars are simply not telling kids the full truth.

For example, take the word Jihad. It is believed to represent a holy war, and the object is to bring the whole world under Islamic rule and law. But in the textbooks, that is not what kids are reading. In the World History Book, "across the centuries," Jihad is called a struggle "to do one's best to resist temptation and overcome evil."

The president of the American Textbook Council, Gil Sewell, recently spoke about his concerns at a roundtable discussion on Capitol Hill.

Sewell said, "When it comes to Holy War, to Islamic law, to slavery, to the treatment of women, the textbooks fudge, hedge - and it's not accidental."

And the report says, when it comes to women, most textbooks do not mention how many men in the Islamic world look at women as just another possession. Many times, it just ignores that aspect altogether. One textbook says, "Although men had most of the power in Arab society, women had some freedom. For example, women could own and inherit property. Women contributed to the group through such activities as spinning and weaving."

When it comes to putting a positive spin on the teachings of Islam, one of the most influential organizations out there is the Council on Islamic Education, based in California. It is a research institute that gives guidance to publishers when it comes to what they say about Islam.

The founder, Shabbir Mansuri, came to the CBN News studios in Washington, and we asked him if the textbooks today are really giving students a complete and true picture.

Mansuri answered, "I think that is a valid point. I don't think it's a point we shouldn't put on the table for us to discuss. I think it's a valid point."

But, Mansuri says, with just a few pages devoted to Islam in the textbooks, you can only include so much. And, he says, kids in grade school may not be ready to comprehend it all, anyway.

Mansuri added, "You can make an argument that we want them to know the good and bad of it. Valid argument. [But] are they equipped to understand the good and bad of it?"

Which brings us to Whahabbism, an extremist fundamentalist brand of Islam. Whahabbism is being taught to school children in Saudi Arabia, and its most infamous follower is Osama bin Laden himself. This is not being mentioned in American textbooks.

Mansuri remarked, "It's put in some sort of large way that, as a Muslim, I'm scratching my head and saying what are they talking about?

We said we surmised that it was prevalent in the Islamic world.

Mansuri replied, "It is not. That is what I am saying. It is in the mind of those who are deniers."

Mansuri said that all his group is trying to do, is to make sure that what is written about Islam comforms to the textbook standards in each state. In California, the standards say, "When ethnic or cultural groups are portrayed, portrayals must not depict differences in customs or lifestyles as undesirable, and must not reflect adversely on such differences."

So, Mansuri says that he strives to make that happen.

But Historian David Barton says that all the facts must be put on the table. Barton remarked, "They [Muslims] may want to be presented well today, but historically there are some footprints that have to be looked at."

And he says those footprints are not always so flattering. Barton said, "There was a Barbary Powers war that went on for 16 years in America, where America was dealing with Muslim terrorists for 16 years back, from 1790 through 1806. That is the reason we have the Marine Corps hymn. 'From the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli' was because the American Marines went inland in the same area where they are now, to release enslaved Americans [who] had been taken prisoner by Muslim terrorists. And for 16 years, for four presidents, we fought a war against Muslim terrorists."

Barton says that history should not be edited to make a faith look good. "As a Christian," Barton said, "I can't say we're not going to teach the witch trials because that would make me look bad as a Christian."

But in today's textbooks, Muhammad is not made to look bad at all. He is mentioned numerous times in a positive light, but critics are curious as to why there is no mention of the controversy in which he supposedly had multiple wives, and one of them was a very young girl. Instead, you find role-playing exercises for students, like reading the Koran in class or dressing up as Muslim pilgrims on their way to Mecca.

Jordan Rubio in Virginia Beach knows the feeling. At his public school, one of his classmates was asked to go in front of his class and pretend to be an Egyptian pharaoh. Then Jordan and the rest of his classmates had to bow down to him. His mother could not believe it.

Teresa Rubio said, "I asked him how he felt when he did that, and to my surprise, he responded that he immediately went to praying, and asked for forgiveness."

Jordan was not the only one in her family who had a problem. Her daughter Emily was asked to do an English grammar assignment, and the book used was the Koran. Theresa says, why not the Bible?

Teresa Rubio remarked, "I can understand that we need to understand other cultures and other traditions, but when Jesus is not given equal time in the classroom, I just feel that I have to oppose that."

All of Theresa's experiences have led her to a strong conclusion. "We really just need to pay very close attention to where we're sending our children, and what they are learning when they go there."

Mansuri says that the way Islam is taught is not the problem. Instead, he says, Christians simply do not have a seat at the table when it comes to reviewing textbooks at the state level.

He said, "Every committee that I'm invited to sit [on], if there are religious institutions that are brought in, I never see conservative Christians, for example."

That is a problem. And until that happens, the textbooks remain in their current state. It can be debated whether the violent images kids see on TV should be represented in the pages of their textbooks. What is not up for debate is that only some of the facts are being taught to kids in America's classrooms.