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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: jlallen who wrote (91194)	12/12/2004 7:51:49 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

I am sure you believe you understand the "sacrifice" necessary to maintain the fantasy that you believe in. But not everyone beleives the Iraqi war has anything to do with the freedom of Americans. Clearly you do not understand that now, and you may never understand it. The freedom I enjoy was not won on some Iraqi battlefield, nor is it to be won with namecalling, and fear, and propaganda and the cowardice of ignorant and blind patriotism.

To: jlallen who wrote (91194)	12/12/2004 7:58:23 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 108807

The freedom that I enjoy: Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. --William Pitt (1759-1806) Freedom is always and exclusively freedom for the one who thinks differently. --Rosa Luxemburg Without general elections, without unrestricted freedom of press and assembly, without a free struggle of opinion, life dies out in every public institution, becomes a mere semblance of life, in which only the bureaucracy remains as the active element. --Rosa Luxemburg (1871-1919) Polish-German socialist, writer I do not think these freedoms have anything to do with your concept of freedom- which seems only to embrace the freedom to think as you do. That is not freedom. When you constantly complain about people who think differently from you, and accuse them of destroying freedom, because they enjoy the freedom to be different from you, and want MORE freedom than you want, this is just silly. Freedom, for Americans, needs to be guarded more scrupulously in America, than it needs to be guarded in Iraq (or anywhere else), since freedom begins at home, for a superpower. Iraq can certainly lose us our freedom, if military reasons are given for chipping away at our domestic freedoms, but no fighting in Iraq will give us any MORE freedom. To argue that is irrational (imo). Freedom is not something that anybody can be given. Freedom is something people take, and people are as free as they want to be. --James Baldwin Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth. --John Fitzgerald Kennedy U.S. Democratic politician and president