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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: TimF who wrote (153924)	12/13/2004 11:27:15 PM
From: Brumar89	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

This thread has degenerated into just another one where liberal America-haters come to spread their wild charges. All that liberalism consists of these days is hating America. Conservatives have won the battle of ideas. Liberals have nothing left but hate.

To: TimF who wrote (153924)	12/14/2004 9:08:45 AM
From: michael97123	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Edit. Anti-war folks imo should be concentrating on what buchanan said below rather than beating up this country with exaggerated claims about armor, prisoner abuse and rummy quotes. Folks who were for the war need to consider what buchanan says as well and stop attacking every anti-war poster as anti american. Somewhere between michael moore and neocon ideology is common ground and we should seize it to either follow biden/mccain/lugar more troops and longer time committment or the alternative of declaring victory and exiting over time. Current policy has insufficient troop levels and is getting us nowhere. Post election we must correct this one way or another. Pat Buchanan on IMUS this morning a few minutes ago. His views on where to go from here mirror mine 100% so i am in strange company for me on this one. I suspect his views mirror posters Ed and GST and perhaps others who supported the war. Salient points: 1. Iraq is like 1830 america if the brits came in and tried to civilize our democracy by ending slavery and repression of indians. Most americans would have rallied to an Andrew Jackson types and fought the brits. 2. Rummy troop levels need to be raised now or after elections OR after elections troops should be pulled out of combat as much as possible and we should declare we accomplished our goal of removing saddam and turning over the reigns to a democratically elected (albeit imperfectly) iraqi govt. And then set timetable for departure. 3. Buchanan believes that this might take the air out of the insurgency as the occupier is leaving and the imperfect govt in place is the best place to start. This of course is problematic and nothing prevents civil war from breaking out. 4. Buchanan feels that since all the iraq war people are still in place, they have the ability to make this choice post election and cutting losses may have a better chance of a better outcome than raising the ante with more troops. 5. Wild card al zarquawi may find himself on the outside looking in if the US starts the withdrawl process and nationalist iraqis start working within the system.